Great Sioux Uprising Event

[wolflars]

As Union player, I have yet to succeed in thwarting this event. I think it says it requires something like 4 units in Great Plains to prevent the loss of VP. After 5 different games, I have failed each and every time despite having 4 plus units in this area. What am I doing wrong?

[Jabberwock]

As Union player, I have yet to succeed in thwarting this event. I think it says it requires something like 4 units in Great Plains to prevent the loss of VP. After 5 different games, I have failed each and every time despite having 4 plus units in this area. What am I doing wrong?

1. Supposedly, they should be line units. I don't think they can be line units which upgraded from militia.
EDIT: this is incorrect.

2. They must remain in place through early January '63, even though the uprising ends in November '62.

I don't think I've ever managed it properly either.

Could someone please post the exact parameters for CountUnits here or on the wiki?

[Jagger]

The Sioux event is located in the USA Events file.

I fixed this a long time ago for the PBEM mod but can't remember the exact problem. It had something to do with the min and max dates for the two pertinant Sioux events. I use the min/max dates below and the event works properly. Note the uprising can begin between 17 Aug 62 and 1 Oct, 62. You must have three units at Fort Laramie by 15 Nov 62 and keep them there till 1 Jan, 1863.

IIRC, I usually did not have time to move troops to Fort Laramie before failing to meet the event conditions due to the min/max dates overlapping between the two Sioux events. You can actually use pretty much any dates but just don't have the dates overlap.

SelectFaction = $USA
SelectRegion = $Great Plains
StartEvent = evt_nam_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862|1|2|evt_txt_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862|Event-img_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862|$Great Plains|122

Conditions
MinDate = 1862/08/17
MaxDate = 1862/10/01

Actions
ChgObjective = $Great Plains;5
DescEvent = evt_desc_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862
ChangeFacMorale = 5

SelectFaction = $CSA

SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Great Plains
CreateGroup
Posture = $Defensive
SetKind = $Land
Entranch = 0
InCS = 0
FixType = 999
SetName = Sioux Uprising
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_IND_Bra1
FlavorName = Chief Crazy Horse
SUFlavorName = Sioux Indians
SetLevel = 3
SetName = Sioux Indians
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_IND_Bra1
FlavorName = Chief Sitting Bull
SUFlavorName = Sioux Indians
SetLevel = 3
SetName = Sioux Indians
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_IND_Bra2
FlavorName = Chief Red Cloud
SUFlavorName = Sioux Indians
SetLevel = 3
SetName = Sioux Indians
Apply

EndEvent

SelectFaction = $USA

SelectFaction = $USA
SelectRegion = $Great Plains
StartEvent = evt_nam_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862Penalty|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Great Plains|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1862/10/15
MaxDate = 1863/01/01
CountUnits = $Great Plains;0;$USA;-1;<;3

Actions
DescEvent = evt_desc_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862Penalty
ChgVPCount = -25

EndEvent

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Jabberwock]

The times I've tried this, I sent three units into the Great Plains during July, and slaughtered the Sioux as they appear. I've still had issues. That's why I'm asking about the CountUnits evaluation. What do the 0 and -1 arguments mean?

[Jagger]

Ok, I just looked at the original events. Here is what I see wrong.

First note that the Min/Max date for the initiating Sioux uprising event lacks a probability. So all events will fire on the MinDate. The uprising will always occur on 17 Aug 1861.

The second event, which sets the conditions for the Union player, lacks a reference to the first event. It simply uses a min/max date for fulfilling the 3 unit count at Fort Laramie. The event needs an EvalEvent in case the Sioux Uprising does not occur. In addition, I would set a min/max evaluation date after the latest date the Sioux uprising could possibly occur to ensure there is at least a minimum time available to meet the conditions.

Thus the way the events are originally set, the Sioux uprising will always occur on 17 Aug, 1862. And the Union must always meet the conditions by 9 Sept 1862. A very short time frame to meet the objectives.

The third event appears to remove the Objective status of the Great Plains which is created by the initial Sioux Uprising Event. I am not sure why it references Hempstead, Tx for a region but I don't think it makes a difference.

To produce an event which works better for the players, I would add a probability to fire to the initial Sioux Uprising Event...perhaps 60% over a certain time frame....8/17/62-10/05/62. So 60% chance to fire each turn over 4 turns.

Second, the conditions event needs an EvalEvent referencing the Sioux Uprising. The EvalEvent is needed so that the conditions event only fires if the Sioux Uprising actually occurs. Plus I would add in a min date after the latest possible uprising date. I think 12/01/62 through 01/14/63 would work well. The Union must have 3 units at Fort Laramie by 1 Dec, 61 and keep them there for three turns until 14 Jan, 62.

In a worse case situation, the Sioux Uprising would occur on Oct 5, 1862. The Union would have 3 turns to ensure 3 units are located at Fort Laramie by 1 Dec 62. Should be time enough but the Union would need to hustle. In a best case situation, the Sioux Uprising would occur on Aug 17, 1862 and the Union would have 6 turns till 1 Dec 62 to meet the conditions.

The third event appears OK except I would use a fixed date after the min/max objectives date. So say 01/16/63.

So here is the final version of the three events with changes bolded. It looks good to me but if anyone spots an error let me know.

----------------------------------------------------

SelectFaction = $USA
SelectRegion = $Great Plains
StartEvent =

evt_nam_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862|1|2|evt_txt_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862|Event-img_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862|$Great Plains|122

Conditions
MinDate = 1862/08/17
MaxDate = 1862/10/05
Probability = 60

Actions
ChgObjective = $Great Plains;5
DescEvent = evt_desc_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862
ChangeFacMorale = 5

SelectFaction = $CSA

SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Great Plains
CreateGroup
Posture = $Defensive
SetKind = $Land
Entranch = 0
InCS = 0
FixType = 999
SetName = Sioux Uprising
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_IND_Bra1
FlavorName = Chief Crazy Horse
SUFlavorName = Sioux Indians
SetLevel = 3
SetName = Sioux Indians
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_IND_Bra1
FlavorName = Chief Sitting Bull
SUFlavorName = Sioux Indians
SetLevel = 3
SetName = Sioux Indians
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_IND_Bra2
FlavorName = Chief Red Cloud
SUFlavorName = Sioux Indians
SetLevel = 3
SetName = Sioux Indians
Apply

EndEvent

SelectFaction = $USA

SelectFaction = $USA
SelectRegion = $Great Plains
StartEvent = evt_nam_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862Penalty|1|1|NULL|NULL|$Great Plains|NULL

Conditions
MinDate = 1862/12/01
MaxDate = 1863/01/14
EvalEvent = evt_nam_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862;=;1
CountUnits = $Great Plains;0;$USA;-1;<;3

Actions
DescEvent = evt_desc_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862Penalty
ChgVPCount = -25

EndEvent

SelectFaction = $USA
SelectRegion = $Hampstead, TX
StartEvent = evt_nam_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862End|1|0|NULL|NULL|$Hampstead, TX|NULL

Conditions
FixedDate = 1863/01/16

Actions
ChgObjective = $Great Plains;0

EndEvent

[Jagger]

The times I've tried this, I sent three units into the Great Plains during July, and slaughtered the Sioux as they appear. I've still had issues. That's why I'm asking about the CountUnits evaluation. What do the 0 and -1 arguments mean?

I am not sure about the format for unit count. Although the Sioux Uprising formatting is in the same manner as other events measuring the same type of conditions...so I assume it is right. I am fairly certain that when I place three units at Fort Laramie within the time limit, I am not penalized.

I just looked at it again..........

CountUnits = $Great Plains;0;$USA;-1;<;3

For the 2nd event to trigger the 25 VP penalty, all conditions must read as true. So for the USA count condition to read as true, the USA must have either 0 or 1 or 2 units in the hex. If the USA has 3 units or more, the count will be greater than < 3 and thus read as false. So the penalty event will not fire.

Actually at this very moment, in one PBEM, I am in the process of meeting the Sioux Uprising conditions. So I will watch it closely.

[gekkoguy82]

i'm a dummy with the code-ish stuff so....... is this event and what the union player is supposed to do to put down the rebellion, some sort of glitch then? or there's a problem with it? (forgive my ignorance )

[Eoghammer]

They are trying to find what does actually the events do... and how to manage it in order to be able to avoid the penality for the Union.
It may lead to a modification of the events in the upcoming patch as you are not the only one to find that it is impossible to avoid the penality.

[Jabberwock]

Hijacking warning (off the original topic). Someday I will do my own mod. In the meantime, my mod suggestions for these events would be:

Create a warning event in early July (Sioux unrest)
Create 4 Minnesota volunteers units as possible reinforcements in late July, that when bought, would appear in the Great Plains: 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th Minnesota volunteers. Possibly 1 6lb artillery unit as well.
Start the random chance in late July at 50%.
Reduce the objective points to 2 or 3.
Eliminate the VP penalty event.
Create 5 Indian units unlocked in offensive posture.

Change the color names to:
Chief Little Crow
Chief Big Eagle
Gray Bird
Chief Mankato
Chief Little Six

The Great Sioux Uprising of 1862 took place among the Dakota (or Lower Eastern Sioux) tribes in SW Minnesota. The names used currently are Lakota (Western Sioux), and became prominent later.

If you still want a penalty event, check to see how many of these are still in existence 4 turns after they are created, and if 3 or more exist, create some Dakota, Nakota, Winnebago, and Chippewa reinforcements for them - the rationale being that if it had not been promptly dealt with, the uprising would have spread.

[Le Ricain]

I am not sure about the format for unit count. Although the Sioux Uprising formatting is in the same manner as other events measuring the same type of conditions...so I assume it is right. I am fairly certain that when I place three units at Fort Laramie within the time limit, I am not penalized.

I just looked at it again..........

CountUnits = $Great Plains;0;$USA;-1;<;3

For the 2nd event to trigger the 25 VP penalty, all conditions must read as true. So for the USA count condition to read as true, the USA must have either 0 or 1 or 2 units in the hex. If the USA has 3 units or more, the count will be greater than < 3 and thus read as false. So the penalty event will not fire.

Actually at this very moment, in one PBEM, I am in the process of meeting the Sioux Uprising conditions. So I will watch it closely.

But the reality of the situation is that you will get the penalty with 3 units in the region.

[Ethy]

i cant say i have evr encountered the event in any of my games!

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[lodilefty]

In the statement "CountUnits = $Great Plains;0;$USA;-1;<;3"

there is a semi-colon ";" between the less-than "<" symbol and the "3". Could that be a problem?

I don't think so. It's the same syntax as the 'close to Richmond' eventthat counts 10 units.....

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[lodilefty]

I just thought it looked rather strange to have a semi-colon in the middle of a conditional statement.

Yeah, but that's the 'language'. Look in the xls files: all these semicolons are coming from 'pipe' symbols. Standard syntax to combine parameters in a single cell....

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[lodilefty]

<snip>
----------------------------------------------------

SelectFaction = $USA
SelectRegion = $Great Plains
StartEvent =

evt_nam_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862|1|2|evt_txt_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862|Event-img_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862|$Great Plains|122

Conditions
MinDate = 1862/08/17
MaxDate = 1862/10/05
Probability = 60

Actions
ChgObjective = $Great Plains;5
DescEvent = evt_desc_USA_GreatSiouxUprising1862
ChangeFacMorale = 5

SelectFaction = $CSA

SelectFaction = $CSA
SelectRegion = $Great Plains
CreateGroup
<snip>
EndEvent

I think you got it, except whose morale is increased by 5? Since the command is before the CSA faction selected [and it is a USA faction morale change in the database]
It looks like USA goes up 5, which is a bit counter-intuitive? Shouldn't this be "sigh, more bad news" for USA, or "whoopee, more good news" for CSA?

Also, 60% per turn for 4 turns makes it highly likely to occur. [overall probability ~97%], which is OK, I guess. More an issue of when, not if...

[wolflars]

post deleted

[Jabberwock]

I just thought it looked rather strange to have a semi-colon in the middle of a conditional statement.

Also, does the Richmond event work correctly in regards to the numbers? I've seen various reports of gamers not having it work correctly and always assumed they were not meeting the "positioning" requirements.

I think your assumption has been correct, a combination of players not knowing the regions or the time factor. The 10 units for that event has worked for me, when I got the other two things right.

Delphi is "pascal-ish" sort of language. Lots of punctuation in odd places (to you and me), that make perfect sense if you're used to it.

[Big Muddy]

I believe this is something you have to be prepared for. I thought it was 3 units, but you have to send at least 3 Bde. within 2 months or lose 20VP.

Keep them there until 1863 or lose 25 VP, I missed yet another opportunity.

[lodilefty]

I believe this is something you have to be prepared for. I thought it was 3 units, but you have to send at least 3 Bde. within 2 months or lose 20VP.

Keep them there until 1863 or lose 25 VP, I missed yet another opportunity.

OK, so WHAT is this:

"CountUnits = $Great Plains;0;$USA;-1;<;3"

counting as a "Unit"????
Stack?
Brigade? [is a single regiment brigade counted as 1?]
elements? [is a Brigade with 4 regiments/elements counted as 1 or 4?]
type of unit/element? [line inf?, militia?, cav?, arty?]

Halp! I'm soooo confused!!!!

[Big Muddy]

OK, so WHAT is this:

"CountUnits = $Great Plains;0;$USA;-1;<;3"

counting as a "Unit"????
Stack?
Brigade? [is a single regiment brigade counted as 1?]
elements? [is a Brigade with 4 regiments/elements counted as 1 or 4?]
type of unit/element? [line inf?, militia?, cav?, arty?]

Halp! I'm soooo confused!!!!

I had to hussle 3 nearby Generals up there, now my plan was to make 3 single reg bde but had to settle for a single reg div, time ran out.

I should add that I do play modded, and don't know if this event had been altered in any way, my guess would be no. My units were line inf, cav & arty, I'll just have to settle on driving the Sioux out.

[Big Muddy]

The message box says 3 units, the paper says send at least 3 Bde. within 2 months or lose 20VP.

Almost forgot, the Sioux beat me going in, if they strike now they shoud have the Plains.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Le Ricain]

I had to hussle 3 nearby Generals up there, now my plan was to make 3 single reg bde but had to settle for a single reg div, time ran out.

I should add that I do play modded, and don't know if this event had been altered in any way, my guess would be no. My units were line inf, cav & arty, I'll just have to settle on driving the Sioux out.

In my experience, it really does not matter what you do with regards to the great plains. As soon as the Western boxs become available, I start making plans for the Sioux event. In some of my games, I have moved the Rockies and Oregon regulars to the Great Plains giving me three brigades including the garrison. In other games, I have moved the two Regulars plus the artillery giving me four units. In one game, I moved the cavalry brigade with the others giving me 5 units. In one game I built an Iowa Bde and sent that to the box.

When the event fires, I have tried both sitting and watching the Sioux until the time limit has expired and attacking and destroying the Sioux.

All of things that I have tried have resulted in exactly the same result: I lose 25 VP's.

[Jagger]

I believe this is something you have to be prepared for. I thought it was 3 units, but you have to send at least 3 Bde. within 2 months or lose 20VP.

Keep them there until 1863 or lose 25 VP, I missed yet another opportunity.

I just lost the 25 VP's in my PBEM. I thought I had plenty of units at Fort Laramie. But after losing the VP's, I looked at the units and realized I had 6 cavalry regiments and 3 infantry regiments. I did not have a single brigade in the entire formation.

It seems the three units must be brigades as this experience seems to indicate and Big Muddy is stating.....

[Jagger]

If I am summarizing this thread correctly...

The USA should actually take a 5 NM hit for the event occuring, but there should be a chance of recovering 25 VPs if successfully acted upon. Also there's the small matter of tweaking in the percentages and date overlaps. Correct?

Actually the event is structured exactly the opposite.

The US gains 5 NM when the Sioux revolt fires. If the Union does not keep 3 brigades at Fort Laramie during the entire defined time frame, the Union loses 25 VP's rather than gains.

I am not sure I agree with the idea of the US gaining NM upon the news of a Sioux uprising. Would the public respond positively to that sort of news? Although it is not a big deal either way. I wouldn't have a problem with getting rid of the NM gain altogether or reducing it to 1 or 2NM.

I think the penalty is structured properly because it forces the Union to place and keep three brigades at Fort Laramie for the entire time frame if the player does not want to accept the penalty. I think a penalty is more likely to encourage the Union to move units to Fort Laramie than a bonus.

[Jabberwock]

I think the penalty is structured properly because it forces the Union to place and keep three brigades at Fort Laramie for the entire time frame if the player does not want to accept the penalty. I think a penalty is more likely to encourage the Union to move units to Fort Laramie than a bonus.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a penalty, but if you're planning to revise the events, why not apply the appropriate penalty according to the historical situation.

The first thing* Little Crow did, before any organized attacks, was determine who his potential allies were. Less than half of the Eastern Sioux tribes got involved, because they knew the odds were bad. Their traditional allies and rivals, the Winnebago and Chippewa tribes, followed the same reasoning.

There is already a built in VP incentive (a small one) in making the Great Plains an objective.

* Actually it was the second thing. The first thing he did was try to kick everybody out of his house so he could go back to sleep. He really wanted it to be somebody else's uprising.

[Le Ricain]

I just lost the 25 VP's in my PBEM. I thought I had plenty of units at Fort Laramie. But after losing the VP's, I looked at the units and realized I had 6 cavalry regiments and 3 infantry regiments. I did not have a single brigade in the entire formation.

It seems the three units must be brigades as this experience seems to indicate and Big Muddy is stating.....

So, a single regiment brigade is not a brigade for the purposes of this event?