Forming Divisions/Corps/Armies needs to be reworked.

[runyan99]

Are you suggesting 72/36, like the Leader MOD? What was your justification for raising it in the Leader MOD if I might ask, other than it just seems too low at 48/24?

It is 48 CSA divisions for the leader mod. The justification is that I do not really think there is sufficient manpower in the game to get to 48, so the number is really a "no cap" number. I think 48 are more divisions than you need. I don't know the USA numbers off the top of my head.

I do think it is possible to get up to 36, so if there is going to be a high cap, 36 is probably pretty close to maximum full capacity of what can actually be put into the field in game based on my experience.

[Coregonas]

Early-Oct 62 - In my current PBEM game as CSA I have 600 combat regiments + 100 support units (according to the replacement data)

I ll do the easy math check

600 / 17 = nearly 36 Full Divisions needed

Not all the "combat" troops are in the front, perhaps 100 are in garrisons... I ve done a quick counting and around 100-120 regiments are inside / around corps without any possibility of joining a division.

Ok... the game went somewhat different from the historic path.
Me CSA strategy -> "stay here until you federal attack me".
He USA strategy -> "I ll advance only if no one is in the middle".

So -> been very few big battles, me CSA lost more troops (Usa played better? leure: ). USA did only 2 / 3 attacks in all the game against corps (maximum 2divisions on the defensive). I ve done 1 massive assault 10 divisions in all.

CSA losses 72.000 --- In the real ACW by this time aprox 170.000 lost men.

So I should deploy 100.000 more troops than the historic way... 10 more divisions! And Winter is coming, stopping the USA assaults for a while!

This is posted to show even 36 CSA divisions can be " "easily" " achieved depending on the game-style of both players! And the December draft is near here -> near 1000 conscripts ***Constructing cheap "Stalin-militia" divisions - 12 militia (84) + 1 SS (6) + 4 cheap Arty (8) 100 Conscript -> 10 divisions!!!!

However I feel in fact difficult to achieve many more troops... one day or another USA will start assaulting me as a mad... in my weaker positions, so I ll start losing lots of troops. Replacements and the such...

Then another problem arises --- not enough leaders 2* to move all these troops leure:
AS actually the game does not generate leaders (mainly highly-ranked) according to real needs, just as a pre-recorded leader "creation" series.

Perhaps some automatic promotion should be done according to total army size (for instance have a minimum 3* every 100 regiments / 2 * every 50troops?)... Autopromoting should work according to "seniority" so Huger / Van Dorn / Bragg... should promote the first ones... ????? Ahhh another mad idea for you boys
could the results be similar to the leader Mod?

[soloswolf]

Get those boys in the fight!

Promote them in the field, man.

[Jones76]

That is exactly what I mean. Once a new player gets past the "Oh, so that's how I create a division" point, then they start asking:

"Why is my general penalized?"
"What is this cost?"
"How much is it of each resource?"
"I created a whole bunch of divisions, how do I keep track of how many?"

I have trouble remembering how much of each I need to save at the the end of each turn. I can only imagine the frustration of a new-to-intermediate player trying to figure it out. My personal style of play usually has me at the limits of at least two of my resources at the end of each turn. At that point I have to close the ledger, select a unit, click a tab and hover over a button to double-check how many divisions I've built, try to remember the formula (was it 5WS and 1 conscript - or the other way around?), do a quick calculation, then reopen the ledger and readjust my spending. I find that aspect time-consuming and tedious.

Man oh man, how right you are. I've read till I can read no more. All these requirements just to form armies/corps/div are mind numbing. Seemed very easy in the tutorial, but in all the games I started, I have yet to actually create a army structure. Sometime I can form a division IF that certain general will let me and only with certain units, but not others. Mostly I got a lot of one star generals I can do nothing with.

Then of course there is the reinforcement/replacements part Im not real clear about, so I just take a guess till I see I have no more money. I build industry in 3 states just for the heck of it without really understanding the purpose other than it will randomly produce stuff that Im not really sure where I will need it or how it gets spent.

As far as the naval part.....haven't even bothered to try to start figuring that out, as I assume if I can't organize an army, the navy is the least of my worries.

I actually looked in the mod section of the forums to see if someone had made a mod to get rid of the restrictions and just let me form armies/corps/div in their historical structure without jumping thru all these hoops, but did not see any, so I assume it can't be done.

Think I just need a break, then start reading from scratch and see if that helps.

[Jabberwock]

Numerous old-timers here can tell you:

"Don't get Jabber started on the navy. Don't even mention it to him."

I love this game, and I love Ageod, but I have two pet peeves. The "hidden" division costs are the lesser peeve.

For now, keep doing as you are ... don't worry about building a navy.

[Coffee Sergeant]

They probably should do a little "tree" structure like they do for file systems, that way moving units around in army/corps/ division would be really easy.

I also think it should be possible to add units to a division that are all not in the same region. Would make planning much easier - you could map out your divisions/corps for units that haven't fully trained yet.

As far as the naval part.....haven't even bothered to try to start figuring that out, as I assume if I can't organize an army, the navy is the least of my worries.

Much easier than the army. There is no structure or command penalties to worry about. You just add a bunch of ships to the stack, and a leader if available, and there's your fleet.

[i64man]

I am new to this type a game so please beard with me. I got the game this past weekend and love it. However, I am finding it difficult to form divisions and corps.

I have been browsing some of the topics here, but when I try them, I find my controls in the special orders tab all grey out. I can't bearly do anything. I can assign generals to Bde's and can group them, but the controls are all grey out.

I am playing the campaign game and currently am at Dec 61. Does that have any impact.

Thanks.

I64man

[arsan]

Hi and welcome!

Read the tooltip over the grayed out button. It will tell you the possible causes for the button not being available.
The more probable cause is because the leader you want to use to form the division is not activated or maybe is already attached to a brigade. Wait for him to become active and/or dettach him from the brigade (not to mistake to unstack him. It can be stacked with any thing you want. No problem with it)
Regards!

[Copper Head]

When units are locked, inactive, etc some sort of visual representation on the unit portrait would makes things a clearer and easier to spot.

An inactive leader could be greyed out. A locked unit could have a large gray lock graphic somewhere on the portrait etc, etc.

[Lasse]

there is a lock on the picture of a unit that is 'locked'. inactive leaders has a brown enveloape i the right hand corner of the larger unitbox (for a lack of a better word)

[Southerner]

This current game procedure to create divisions is a really poor design feature.
A lot more thought needs to go into this to make it more intuative to the player - ..

Amen.

One of the things that threw a curve to me when I first started playing was the game's consideration of Brigades and Regiments as being one and the same thing...which of course they are not....a brigade being a collection of regiments...as a division is a collection of brigaes...a corp a collection of divisions...and an army a collection of corps.

Also there should be some clear indication of what you can do with some generals and what you can not do with others. In other words clear and accurate definitions of duties according to rank.

I find it highly frustrating ,as I learn the game, to realize that I can form a divison around some one star generals but not with others. It really hinders planning not knowing beforehand.


I'm not about to say that I know how to solve these things or even suggest doing so...but clearly there is some room for improvement in this aspect of the game.

[arsan]

Hi

I think you still don't get some of the game concepts…
You can form divisions with ALL 1 star generals (well, and even with all 2 and 3 star ones if you like, but they are better used as corps or armies commanders most of the times). You just have to wait for them to become active if in a given turn they are not.
- Brigades and regiments are not the same thing on game. As in reality and as you state on your post, brigades are a group of regiments also on game. The difference is that you can not separate brigade elements (regiments).
You can see the brigades as the basic building blocks of armies on game, with the exceptions that the game also have individual regiments to represent units that in reality were used that way (cavalry, militia…)

Regards!

[Skibear]

Whats nice about that system is that it can be unpredictable and difficult to plan. You really are stepping into Lincoln or Davis's shoes when the generals are slow and reluctant to form that division, or march quickly and aggressively towards the enemy. If a general is inactive and dragging his heals about doing something, you either have to get another general who will, or wait for him to become active. That really captures some of the flavour of the generalship of the ACW unlike fighting with some Prussian proffessional war machine that works like clockwork.

On the limit of divisions - i think the arguement behind higher limits is good. 24 is never enough for the CSA very quickly, and those you do have are then always maxed out to 17+1 and you have so many generals left over, some of good quality. Maybe with higher limits then we can see more smaller divisions out there too to add a bit more variety. The limits should be based on commaders available i think.
Be interested to know how many CSA divisions there were historically, though sure its already been covered on some thread?

[Southerner]

Hi


You can form divisions with ALL 1 star generals

Maybe with the game you have ..but that's most certainly not true with the one I have.

For example: I can form several divisons using some of the one stars in a stack...unform the divisions just created ...and try to form divisions using different one stars in the same stack..it just will not work (that is to say you can not form divisions around some one stars) with certain one stars. Then I can reform the divisions around the one stars I had originally used and it does work again.

And ...as I said... it is all very confusing especially for someone just trying to figure out how it all comes together...and that doesn't begin to account for the fact that one stars(Brigader Generals) shouldn't be routinely commanding divisions in the first place.

[Rafiki]

You cannot form divisions with inactive generals, that's the main deciding factor

[Coregonas]

Be interested to know how many CSA divisions there were historically, though sure its already been covered on some thread?

Just in Gettysburg around 10 "Big" CSA divisions (I count 1 of them was cavalry) in 3 corps were involved. You can count on a similar army in the West and some extra dispersed units

USA got nearly 23 ... all of them smaller in 8 corps.

In conclusion... The real numbers are similar to the original values.

BUT WHAT IF?
there are few battles & casualties
can be raised troops more quickly
and so on...

So we should have the option to make grow somewhat bigger armies than reality... to change it... As we must have the option to win the USA...

[Copper Head]

'there is a lock on the picture of a unit that is 'locked'. inactive leaders has a brown enveloape i the right hand corner of the larger unitbox (for a lack of a better word)'

Yes but I'm thinking of the time when you have a whole row of units in a stack - if you could see straight away (without clicking into the unit) if it was locked, inactive etc, it would make life a lot simpler. You could tell at a glance why a stack wasnt moving or why you couldn't form a division.

[monsieurdl]

I know this may sound stupid, but...

How do you form a corps if the 2-star you need is in the same corps as another 2-star? What is the secret for releasing the 2-star from the corps he's in and creating his own tab? Thank you!

[Coregonas]

I know this may sound stupid, but...

How do you form a corps if the 2-star you need is in the same corps as another 2-star? What is the secret for releasing the 2-star from the corps he's in and creating his own tab? Thank you!

To form another corps:

Pick your 2nd 2* leader and send him into a new STACK. (Take him out of the corps) and then

selecting the lone 2* leader -> Search for the button "create corps".

Then add troops as desired...

REMEMBER you must be in range of an ARMY (the standard maximum range is around 4 areas away --- 2+ STRAT leader)

You can do it also by sending this 2* leader into another non corps stack

[monsieurdl]

That's the one thing I was missing- when I reviewed the tutorial, I didn't see it. That makes it so much better- those dang penalties and bulky corps were giving me fits! Thanks!