Treaty of Pressburg

[Captain_Orso]

Hi Vicburg,

sorry for my ignorance, but maybe you can shed some light on this for me.

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Based on coding, sometimes the engine would move units in Austria to closest friendly location. In other situations, those units might be destroyed. I gave France foreign access rights and that worked. However, the French units were still deep in Austrian territory and even with supply rights, not getting enough supply and taking horrendous attrition and supply related hits moving back to France during winter. Not sure if building up depots and turning those over to Austrians would have improved the supply situation. Didn't have time to test that.
8<

Supply Rights allow for using the supplies of a nation granting you those rights. Access Rights are the same as Supply Rights and Passage Rights combined. Neither of those allow for your faction's supplies to move into or pass through any foreign regions in which you have Supply or Access Rights.

In the example of France being deep inside Austria when Austria surrenders, where are the French forces getting supplies up until then, considering they are deep inside Austria without any direct line of communications to France?

[vicberg]

Up until peace, supply the French is done by conquest and controlled territory. I make sure to leave units to get Military control up to around 100%. There's a depot at ULM and another one at Regensburg. Probably need to build one in between since there's a 5 region distance between the two depots, about maximum allowed by the game. Strasbourg to Ulm is 3 regions and should be ok.

Even while at War, supply starts becoming an issue, but much more slowly. For Regensburg to Wien, there's a few depots (I believe). No Austrian cities produce much. Critical that supply lines from France are working.

[Captain_Orso]

Thanks for answering, Vicburg.

Up until peace, supply the French is done by conquest and controlled territory. I make sure to leave units to get Military control up to around 100%. There's a depot at ULM and another one at Regensburg. Probably need to build one in between since there's a 5 region distance between the two depots, about maximum allowed by the game. Strasbourg to Ulm is 3 regions and should be ok.

Even while at War, supply starts becoming an issue, but much more slowly. For Regensburg to Wien, there's a few depots (I believe). No Austrian cities produce much. Critical that supply lines from France are working.

I'm a bit confused, because my understanding is that your supply will never cross foreign territory unless you have the required MC over those regions, even if you have Supply or Access Rights.

Assuming 1805, Baden, Württemberg, Hessen, and Bayern either have good relationships with France, or are allied in some fashion. Where not directly allied, France has Access Rights--or Supply and Passage Rights, which is exactly the same--, so France cannot gain control over any of their regions, which have not first been under the control of Austria. Thus no supply should ever move from France through any region of those nations. France is simply living off the supplies those lands can offer, which will probably run out at some point, because, let's face it, they're not really economic power-houses.

[vicberg]

A very excellent point. It's something new built into the engine itself. I can see Supply Rights within the Executable but that's about the limits of regex. It's not "configurable" per say in the scripts. It's part of the engine.

I can only assume that with supply rights, the factions supply becomes yours. When supply is pushed, it treats the faction as your own and pushes supplies through the country depots, etc. This also means Austria may get a supply bump from French supplies flowing into Austria. That works for me.

Supply rights would imply that supply from France is pushed into Austria via Baden/Wurttemburg, through depots and to French units. If this is working, then building up depots in Austria prior to peace, would probably help supply situation immensely. The French could winter in Austria, also assuming the Passage rights are working and it wouldn't treat those French armies as being "out in the cold", so to speak. My experience with winter attrition is if you move, you get nailed. If you don't move, all is good. So even if French armies are "outside" in Austria, I'd expect low attrition.

[Captain_Orso]

From what I can see, and from what I've read, nothing has changed in the engine. To move supply into or through a region you need >=25% MC. In regions belonging to factions with which you are on good terms, you cannot gain MC and thus cannot push supplies through those regions.

Neither Access nor Supply Rights make a faction 'belong' to you in any sense.

If you want to see more information on supply distribution, add 'Verbosity_Supp = 1' to General.opt--or like I do and put it its own .opt file: 'SupplyVerbosityOption.opt'. Then each turn you execute, look in the '!HostLog.txt' file for all the information.

One caveat, you must quit the game after executing each turn, or else the supply messages will not be generated properly.

[vicberg]

All I can say is there' s something in the engine itself. I can't tell if that code is working. However, it's winter. There's a 5 region distance between Ulm and Regensburg deopts, and that range IS reduced during winter.

From a UI (User Interface or Front End) perspective, you won't see much.

Best way to determine if supply is flowing is to build a depot along the major road between Ulm and Regensburg and build up Regensburg to level 2 (if it isn't already). Double check the depots from Regensburg down to Wein also and build up if needed. Supply filter will most likely show nothing. Best way to check is to look at the troops themselves.

Then check if supply is flowing or not, post peace

[veji1]

Interesting discussion. I had completely overlooked this aspect of the game (ie building my own depot network, etc) whereas I always gave depots networks lots of thought in AACW and CW2 where your troops could really starve easily in a few turns.

It seems to me that the multinational aspect of the game is making it a lot harder to manage for the engine than a 2 sides wargame like CWII and AACW.

[vicberg]

There is a solution to the supply issue. If I add France as a sub-faction to Austrian Regions, voila, all supply issues go away. The supply filter even works.

That's the very good news. The question comes down to where this can be placed so that every script doesn't have to change.

[veji1]

There is a solution to the supply issue. If I add France as a sub-faction to Austrian Regions, voila, all supply issues go away. The supply filter even works.

That's the very good news. The question comes down to where this can be placed so that every script doesn't have to change.

So maybe one of the consequences of peace negotiations would be that the victor can be added as a sub-faction of the vanquished for 12 or 24 turns (ie 3 or 6 months) to gain supplies and not having to bother marching in the winter.

[vicberg]

It's an eloquent way of dealing with this.

The issue comes down to every foreign access starting game or being given within game will need to change. All games will need to restart because of it. Passage and Supply as separate political options will need to be removed (and should IMO, one is useless without the other).

So it's sizeable, but really does manage this issue in a very good way within the game engine.

[vicberg]

So maybe one of the consequences of peace negotiations would be that the victor can be added as a sub-faction of the vanquished for 12 or 24 turns (ie 3 or 6 months) to gain supplies and not having to bother marching in the winter.

Yes. France could winter in Austria and supplies should flow, though I would still be worried about the Ulm to Regensburg part of the supply chain and I wouldn't count on Austrian supply production solely.

[vicberg]

Also found the problem with the forts bombarding, another eloquent solution

// Forts blocking ship passage: 0: every region can do that (if have guns), 1: needs to have StraitBlock indicated in Exmap in addition
rulStraitBlockOn = 0

Just need to make sure that StraitBlock is correct in whatever Exmap is.

[lodilefty]

Also found the problem with the forts bombarding, another eloquent solution

// Forts blocking ship passage: 0: every region can do that (if have guns), 1: needs to have StraitBlock indicated in Exmap in addition
rulStraitBlockOn = 0

Just need to make sure that StraitBlock is correct in whatever Exmap is.

ExMap is the Map Editor, an on a good day it is "user hostile" ...

We need to define which regions [water/forts adjacent] that will be subject to bombardment by shore batteries.
If you give me a list, I can bumble through ExMap.....

[vicberg]

Not clear if it's related to the REGION with guns or the SEA AREA?

[vicberg]

Assuming Regions


Obvious (or at least should be)
- Gibraltar
- Constantinople
- Gelibolu (exit from Marmara Sea)
- London
- Rouen

Straits of Denmark (open to discussion, but in EVERY game I've played, it's always been a bottleneck for Baltic -> North Sea movement)
- Aarhus
- Fredericia
- Odense
- Kiel

I'm sure there's many other spots. Perhaps someone from forum can review full map and suggest additionals?

[lycortas2]

I am sick but still following along. Gibraltar should NOT be a bombarder. It is, what, 7 or 8 miles between Gibraltar and Cueta. No bombard there. Your others are fine, add Bordeaux.

[vicberg]

I can't see the map, but the rulStraitBlockOn seems to be on the sea zones.

Shutting both sea zones around GB will solve this fort issue at least around the med. Nothing will fire there.

[veji1]

I am sick but still following along. Gibraltar should NOT be a bombarder. It is, what, 7 or 8 miles between Gibraltar and Cueta. No bombard there. Your others are fine, add Bordeaux.

Agreed, the Gibraltar straights were most certainly not narrow enough at the time to warrant automatic bombardment. No what it meant was more almost certain interception by the brits at one point or the other because it gave them a base and eyes. Basically the Brits could keep a fleet with say 1500 cp parked there at all times, and because it is a friendly port area, there would be no cohesion losses nor attrition, ie no weakening of the fleet and automatic (or close to) trashing of all passing ennemy fleet.

[Pocus]

ExMap is the Map Editor, an on a good day it is "user hostile" ...

I like the understatement!

[lodilefty]

oop, let me clarify: Where do we WANT shore bombardment to work? I think the map default is not....

[vicberg]

London, Rouen, Constantinople, Bordeaux.

I'd start with that.

[veji1]

London, Rouen, Constantinople, Bordeaux.

I'd start with that.

I don't have the game, here, but some inland ports in other big estuaries should have the feature too no ? Like Hamburg, Bremen, Sevilla ? Anyway to me the key element should be that whenever a fleet interacts with the land provicne (unload troops or bombard), then the land bombards. Bombarding of passing ships should probablylimited to estuary water province of ports (ie London, Rouen, Bordeaux, Hamburg, etc..) and to some extremely specfiic scenarios like Constantinople.