Captured Units

[joram]

Not sure if this is the right area but here's my question.

Why can't you put replacements into captured equipment? I've captured a ton of supply and a fair amount of artillery routing the Union's Army of Virginia (or Potomac, whatever they are calling it). Oddly, I even captured a coastal artillery and I am walking it back to Norfolk, hehehe.

Anyway, my point is that none of the artillery or supply I have captured and are currently in supply will take replacements? It seems a little odd. Is this a bug or a design decisions? I realize this theoretically is a way to surpass your muster allowance but if you can't strengthen them, then what's the point of capturing them in the first place, you might as well consider them destroyed?

[veji1]

Let's say it is a question of balance... Say you don't have the spare parts to repair the Union Guns you've captured ?

I think it works fine the way it is : I leave the arties I capture in cities or forts or use them to build forts, and I keep the Supply wagons with me since whatever their strength, they weigh 0 command points anyway..

[Spruce]

hm, I think there should a way to solve the problem. And I think it's a problem - many captured guns were introduced into the CSA army.

why not reverting captured equipment to the CSA standard. I mean the unit goes from "heavy artillery CT" to "captured heavy artillery VA". So this also means the graphics go from blue to grey. This could cause you are going over your unit count - but I don't see this be an issue. And you can still pour new replacements in to man the guns.

[caranorn]

This is a code issue, as I understand it there currently is no way to hand out replacements for captured artillery and or supply.

And obviously artillery of both sides was nearly identical, there was no historic problem to keep a piece in action.

[Pocus]

for now this is a code limitation, but there is also the big problem of force pool here, with the captured unit bypassing any force pool limitation.

[Spruce]

for now this is a code limitation, but there is also the big problem of force pool here, with the captured unit bypassing any force pool limitation.

why should that be a problem ? If you are over your count - you can't produce new pieces but still "man" the captured ones.

[Pocus]

the count is for each state and by unit category, by essence a captured unit can't be counted into one of your native category.

[joram]

for now this is a code limitation, but there is also the big problem of force pool here, with the captured unit bypassing any force pool limitation.

I guess I don't see the problem with that to be honest. It's not like it happens a lot. Or at least it shouldn't.

Captured supplies offer some advantages but captured artillery are just a waste of command points in most cases. I've yet to capture one that has had more than a small fraction of strength. I generally push them way behind the lines and let them sit there. Not a huge deal but it doesn't add any flavor to the game and adds to the micromanagement.

Question however, do captured pieces still count against the enemies force limit? That would at least give it some value but if not, I'd be inclined to take the whole captured artillery mechanic out!

[Rafiki]

the count is for each state and by unit category, by essence a captured unit can't be counted into one of your native category.

Could it work if there was a seperate "state" for captured units, for each unit category. They would never be displayed in the build screens (though having a practically unlimited count), but would be able to receive replacements as any other unit.

It may be a loophole with regards to force limits, but if you are "good" at capturing units, there's still a practical limit to how many you'll get hold of over the course of a game.

[McNaughton]

How about this for a possible solution? While it would require a change, how about of instead of capturing a unit, you gain 'replacements' instead? Personally, I think that an empty unit captured really doesn't offer you anything, as you have to spend the effort and time and resources to replenish it (why not just build a new unit?). However, if you get light artillery replacements added to your replacement pool that would be more useful (and since these are generic, it could be applied to any unit you have raised from a home state).

This basically would represent captured guns going into a pool of existing replacement artillery to be deployed to an existing depleted unit, much more useful than a very weak unit you have to repair.

[Montbrun]

^^ Excellent idea!

[joram]

I think that's an intriguing idea. As it stands now, I could care less if I captured enemy artillery. But that would at least give you some reward and allow you to utilize the captured guns without bypassing the force pool limits.

[McNaughton]

Have people really reached force pool limits that quickly? I really haven't been in a position where I am short on units to warrant capturing a battery being important as to beef up a force pool limit.

[Spruce]

I like McNaugtons idea - but I think also that capturing heavy war equipment may change the face of war on the spot. So that's why I really think we should not create reinforcments and leave it to "capturing" of equipment.

I would like to support with an example - in one of my CSA game I assaulted Alexandria and was able to capture a siege artillery and some basicl artillery. I immediately pushed for Washington DC and won the war. If I would have gained reinforcments - I would have had less artillery - which finally may have saved the day for the CSA.

[Montbrun]

My CSA Army of Tennessee captured a Union Pioneer Brigade once - they were immediately impressed into service for the cause...

[joram]

LOL Montbrun. I didn't even know you could capture those.

I had two slightly different events that happened last night that I'll share. For the first time I captured a somewhat useable artillery piece. I think I caught it alone and captured the whole thing intact. That's nice but how often does that happen?

I also captured another piece that was just being built. When I captured it it stayed locked. I couldn't move it, add to it, or anything. Just seems a little silly.

I'll admit this is all minor in an otherwise grand game but just am bringing it up cause it'd be nice to see some useful improvement come to captured equipment.

[Le Ricain]

LOL Montbrun. I didn't even know you could capture those.

I had two slightly different events that happened last night that I'll share. For the first time I captured a somewhat useable artillery piece. I think I caught it alone and captured the whole thing intact. That's nice but how often does that happen?

I also captured another piece that was just being built. When I captured it it stayed locked. I couldn't move it, add to it, or anything. Just seems a little silly.

I'll admit this is all minor in an otherwise grand game but just am bringing it up cause it'd be nice to see some useful improvement come to captured equipment.

I also captured a unit (siege art) that was being built. The tool tip said that it would be ready in four turns and sure enough after four turns it was ready and able to be moved.

I think that the exception is when you capture the CSN Frigate (CSN Crocket, I believe is the name) which is being built in one of Mississppi river ports. When the ship's construction is finished, you can not move it.

[Spruce]

I also captured a unit (siege art) that was being built. The tool tip said that it would be ready in four turns and sure enough after four turns it was ready and able to be moved.

I think that the exception is when you capture the CSN Frigate (CSN Crocket, I believe is the name) which is being built in one of Mississppi river ports. When the ship's construction is finished, you can not move it.

In one of my older games I build the CSN frigate Crocket in Fulton iirc and couldn't move the ship ! That was a waste of resources.

[Pocus]

why the CSS Crocket can't be moved?

[Spruce]

why the CSS Crocket can't be moved?

I already mentioned this in another bug thread - but I guess I didn't get any reaction to that.

The Crocket is a frigate or steam frigate and it was build in Fulton - this is not an ocean harbour. It's inland, so my frigate was a "war memorial" before it entered service. Got no feedback on that,

[Pocus]

but the last couple of patches changed the eligible harbors so that ocean going ships can't be produced in such location. Normally you should not have the problem anymore.

[Le Ricain]

but the last couple of patches changed the eligible harbors so that ocean going ships can't be produced in such location. Normally you should not have the problem anymore.

I must admit that my experience with the CSN Crocket was several games/patches ago.