Is it of any interest ?
1) I have a question regarding the cost : You build it with 2 supply wagons and 4 artillery units. If there is already a depot there do you need the 2 supply wagons as well ? So building a fort and a depot in a city to make it a major hub would cost 4 supply Wagons and 4 artilleries...
2) Do the 4 arty units disappear when the fort is built or become the forts attached artillery or some of them ?
3) Do you get an automatic garrison when you build the fort or have to add an inf unit there as well..
4) Where would you build forts as the CSA ?
- Manassas and Fredericksburg seem good candidates, allowing you to switch a greater part of your army for offensive operations in the Hapers Ferry area.
- In the west you might want to build a fort in Columbus (with a depot) to lock the the area...
- you might as well want to build one in Nashville as a security measure and to give you more freedom for offensive operations...
- Fort Smith in Ark might be a good candidate as well
I guess the whole question is how useful a fort is, what garrison do you need to man it efficiently, etc...
Some have experience or comments ?
Some places I've considered to build Forts as Confederates or Union:
Norfolk Va for the Confederates, just to make that base a bit safer.
Alexandria Va for both Union and Confederates, just to lock a forward defense, either in front of behind the Potomac.
Harpers Ferry Va (in game terms WV), for the same reasons, but less important.
Washington DC for the Union (similar to Alexandria).
New Orleans and Vicksburg, for the Confederates, in case Island no. 10 and the outer New Orleans Forts were to fall.
Maybe Saint Louis for either side.
Cairo Il would make sense for the Union.
The main use I see for the Forts is to interdict shipping. Have a relatively small garrison, an ironclad and a few other ships as backup and block an important line.
Historic Forts built during this period are among others Forts Donelson and Henry (construction might have started before April, but these are definitely 1861 Forts, until the fall of henry construction in the Donelson area continued, though some had to be abandonned right away as their guns had not arrived). Island no. 10 I believe was also a recent construction. Vicksburg I expect would be a Fort built during the war. Fort Johnson in Charleston harbour I believe is also a wartime construction, even Moultrie was just an indefensible spot in 1861 and built up in the following years. Fredericksburg and Petersburg might be Forts in game sense (alternatively just extremely well dug in positions).
Norfolk Va for the Confederates, just to make that base a bit safer.
Alexandria Va for both Union and Confederates, just to lock a forward defense, either in front of behind the Potomac.
Harpers Ferry Va (in game terms WV), for the same reasons, but less important.
Washington DC for the Union (similar to Alexandria).
New Orleans and Vicksburg, for the Confederates, in case Island no. 10 and the outer New Orleans Forts were to fall.
Maybe Saint Louis for either side.
Cairo Il would make sense for the Union.
The main use I see for the Forts is to interdict shipping. Have a relatively small garrison, an ironclad and a few other ships as backup and block an important line.
Historic Forts built during this period are among others Forts Donelson and Henry (construction might have started before April, but these are definitely 1861 Forts, until the fall of henry construction in the Donelson area continued, though some had to be abandonned right away as their guns had not arrived). Island no. 10 I believe was also a recent construction. Vicksburg I expect would be a Fort built during the war. Fort Johnson in Charleston harbour I believe is also a wartime construction, even Moultrie was just an indefensible spot in 1861 and built up in the following years. Fredericksburg and Petersburg might be Forts in game sense (alternatively just extremely well dug in positions).
Marc aka Caran...
I am also very interested in building forts as the CSA in a couple of strategic locations. Does anyone know if the arty units that you use to build a fort make any difference? Does a 6 pounder have the same effect of a columbine? That is importatnt to know because if it doesn't make any difference it is better to use the cheapest units available.
PhilThib wrote:Honestly, a more efficient defense is just to pile up a strong stack with artillery and let them entrench...
But if you, for whatever reason, have to move your units they will loose their entrenchement value while, with a fort, you can move units in and out of the region avoiding that.
jimwinsor wrote:4 artillery batteries are a lot to just have disappear like that. Hmmm.
All for a fort that needs still more guns to shoot at boats that try to sail by.
Doesn't seem worth it to me, as is. Especially as CSA. Now, maybe if those 4 guns got converted to fixed batteries in some future patch...
Thats why in my games, I have modified the files to make forts only cost 1 artillery and upped the supply to 3. If I have to arm the dang things, I'm sure not going to pay arty to do it.
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NewAgeNapolean
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Yes it is cheaper in war materials cost, but every arty you put into building a fort is one less you have to deploy into your combat formations. In my field armies Id rather have 20 arty and 1 supply, than 20 supply and one arty
[CENTER]Grand Campaign Project[/CENTER][CENTER]President of the Confederate States of America[/CENTER][CENTER]Jefferson Davis[/CENTER][CENTER]
[/CENTER]
[/CENTER]denisonh wrote:But arty (6 or 12 lbers) is cheaper than Supply if I am not mistaken........
You are most definitely correct if you crunch the numbers. However, I, personally, would prefer to build a fort with supply wagons. It may be a poor decision in terms of maximizing my resources, but whats a little waste if it makes me feel better.
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TeMagic
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Forts built by the confederates (not a complete list though):
Tennessee:
Fort Pillow, Island No. 10, Fort Zollicoffer, Fort Henry, Fort Donelson, Fort Harris, Fort Wright, Fort Pickering (upgraded in 1861)
Mississippi:
Vicksburg (heavily fortified position (though the city itself could be looked at as a fort))
Virginia:
Fort Beauregard, Fort Johnston
Tennessee:
Fort Pillow, Island No. 10, Fort Zollicoffer, Fort Henry, Fort Donelson, Fort Harris, Fort Wright, Fort Pickering (upgraded in 1861)
Mississippi:
Vicksburg (heavily fortified position (though the city itself could be looked at as a fort))
Virginia:
Fort Beauregard, Fort Johnston
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TeMagic
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Sure, just give me a second (while I'm writing this, to find the information):
"The Confederates had built a fort on the west bank of the Tennessee River called Fort Heiman, directly across from Fort Henry, but apparently no big guns had been positioned there and the fort served little use."
Now, Fort Heiman was built to help the defences of Fort Henry (since Fort Henry had been built at a horrible location, being almost under water by the time of battle)
"Fort Zollicoffer, located west of Nashville on the Cumberland River, was abandoned and did not contest the gunboats"
"In April 1861 Governor Isham G. Harris ordered Lieutenant Colonel Marcus Wright, 154th Militia Regiment at Memphis, to proceed north and occupy a defensive position on the Mississippi River. Wright and a battalion of men and artillery established camp at Randolph in Tipton County. Over the next four months, some five thousand Tennessee, Arkansas, and Confederate troops arrived in Randolph and fortified the Chickasaw Bluffs with artillery batteries and earthen field defenses to guard against the expected Union naval and land attack.
From late April through July 1861, Fort Wright served as the forwardmost defensive position on the Mississippi River, which represented the left flank of the Provisional Army of Tennessee. If the Union forces had come down that corridor, as expected, the battle for Memphis would have been fought at this spot."
Fort Pillow (named after brig. gen. Pillow of Tennessee) along with Camp Harris (later renamed Fort Harris, named after the governor of Tennessee) and Fort Wright served as auxiliary defensive positions down the Mississippi River from Island No. 10 (the most important fortified position on the Miss. R,) for the defence of Memphis.
Fort Donelson and Henry (and the support-Fort Heiman) defended the entrance to the Cumberland and Tennessee Rivers. Further down the Cumberland River, before Nashville was Fort Zollicoffer (named after the brig. gen.) for the defence of the capital.
Nevermind:
Here's one excellent site, that has all the forts and defencive positions before and during the civil war, along with names, dates of operation and what side (CS or US) that used the forts during the war. A great read...:
http://www.geocities.com/naforts/eastforts.html
"The Confederates had built a fort on the west bank of the Tennessee River called Fort Heiman, directly across from Fort Henry, but apparently no big guns had been positioned there and the fort served little use."
Now, Fort Heiman was built to help the defences of Fort Henry (since Fort Henry had been built at a horrible location, being almost under water by the time of battle)
"Fort Zollicoffer, located west of Nashville on the Cumberland River, was abandoned and did not contest the gunboats"
"In April 1861 Governor Isham G. Harris ordered Lieutenant Colonel Marcus Wright, 154th Militia Regiment at Memphis, to proceed north and occupy a defensive position on the Mississippi River. Wright and a battalion of men and artillery established camp at Randolph in Tipton County. Over the next four months, some five thousand Tennessee, Arkansas, and Confederate troops arrived in Randolph and fortified the Chickasaw Bluffs with artillery batteries and earthen field defenses to guard against the expected Union naval and land attack.
From late April through July 1861, Fort Wright served as the forwardmost defensive position on the Mississippi River, which represented the left flank of the Provisional Army of Tennessee. If the Union forces had come down that corridor, as expected, the battle for Memphis would have been fought at this spot."
Fort Pillow (named after brig. gen. Pillow of Tennessee) along with Camp Harris (later renamed Fort Harris, named after the governor of Tennessee) and Fort Wright served as auxiliary defensive positions down the Mississippi River from Island No. 10 (the most important fortified position on the Miss. R,) for the defence of Memphis.
Fort Donelson and Henry (and the support-Fort Heiman) defended the entrance to the Cumberland and Tennessee Rivers. Further down the Cumberland River, before Nashville was Fort Zollicoffer (named after the brig. gen.) for the defence of the capital.
Nevermind:
Here's one excellent site, that has all the forts and defencive positions before and during the civil war, along with names, dates of operation and what side (CS or US) that used the forts during the war. A great read...:
http://www.geocities.com/naforts/eastforts.html
Stonewall wrote:Thats why in my games, I have modified the files to make forts only cost 1 artillery and upped the supply to 3.
Stonewall,
Can you post an example in the "How to mod our games?" section of the forum?
This would help anyone that wants to experiment with different game values and setups.
It would take some pressure off of Ageod from having to "customize" the game to every players preference.
NewAgeNapolean wrote:Yes it is cheaper in war materials cost, but every arty you put into building a fort is one less you have to deploy into your combat formations. In my field armies Id rather have 20 arty and 1 supply, than 20 supply and one arty
That may be so, but I find that I have never emptied the force pool of the 6/12 lber artillery, so this seems to me to be a good use for those units.
As for supply, it is critical in sustaining the offensive and conducting winter ops. Can't have too many wagons in my opinion.
tc237 wrote:Stonewall,
Can you post an example in the "How to mod our games?" section of the forum?
This would help anyone that wants to experiment with different game values and setups.
It would take some pressure off of Ageod from having to "customize" the game to every players preference.
Sure. I'll post it here as well. In you main ACW directory there are a number of different directories. Open the one entitled "gamedata." Within that directory is a series of others. The one we are concerned with is called "structures." Open that directory and there are a series of files. Open the file entitled "1Fort.str" with a text editor like notepad. It should look like this:
Code: Select all
UID = 1
Name = $stc_nam_Fort
Text = $stc_txt_Fort
Bitmap = Fort.png
Z = 2
IsFort = 1
Supply = 5
FillAmmo = 1
NoRazeLevel = 2
MoneyCost = 10
DayCost = 25
ModelType0 = $SupplyType
UnitCost0 = 2
ModelType1 = $Artillery
UnitCost1 = 4
BuildLevel = 2
RecoverRate = 10
RecovUseLevel = 0
RecovKind = $Land
RplMinLevel = 1
SupplyProd = 2
AmmoProd = 0
PowerProd = 0
SupplyWant = 20
AmmoWant = 20
PowerWant = 0
MinLevelSend = 10
MinLevelWant = 1
MaxLevel = 2
MinCityLvl = 1In this file, you can see a number of different attributes. The ones we are concerned with is this section:
Code: Select all
ModelType0 = $SupplyType
UnitCost0 = 2
ModelType1 = $Artillery
UnitCost1 = 4
BuildLevel = 2You can see that the first type of unit (ModelType0) is a supply unit and under that it shows how many it takes to build a fort (UnitCost0 = 2), indicating 2 supply units. Same for artillery. It costs 4 artillery units to build a fort. You can change the types of units required or the numbers. Add more, or delete them altogether. So, for example, my modified file looks like this:
Code: Select all
UID = 1
Name = $stc_nam_Fort
Text = $stc_txt_Fort
Bitmap = Fort.png
Z = 2
IsFort = 1
Supply = 5
FillAmmo = 1
NoRazeLevel = 2
MoneyCost = 10
DayCost = 25
[I][B]ModelType0 = $SupplyType
UnitCost0 = 3
ModelType1 = $Artillery
UnitCost1 = 1
BuildLevel = 2[/B][/I]
RecoverRate = 10
RecovUseLevel = 0
RecovKind = $Land
RplMinLevel = 1
SupplyProd = 2
AmmoProd = 0
PowerProd = 0
SupplyWant = 20
AmmoWant = 20
PowerWant = 0
MinLevelSend = 10
MinLevelWant = 1
MaxLevel = 2
MinCityLvl = 1I have bolded and italicized the parts I changed. If you wanted to change how long it takes to build the foirt, you can changed that. You can modify the base recovery rate of units in a fort. Pretty much, you can change anything you want so long as you understand the variables that are listed.
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daddytorgo
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- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:23 am
I am interested to see how a reduced price for fort construction plays out.
Will we see the CSA build forts all over the place?
What about the USA, they already have a large resource advantage. Will the USA be able to build a series of forts in every region along it's rail supply lines?
IMO, user mods are a better way to test out changes then to have Ageod change the game code.
There is always the possibility that a seemingly minor change now will break the game latter.
Will we see the CSA build forts all over the place?
What about the USA, they already have a large resource advantage. Will the USA be able to build a series of forts in every region along it's rail supply lines?
IMO, user mods are a better way to test out changes then to have Ageod change the game code.
There is always the possibility that a seemingly minor change now will break the game latter.
I am really interested how this mod will play out. Perhaps it will help the rebs to stand better chances. I just hope that they will not go beserk with building too many forts.
Thanks for the tips Stonewall
Thanks for the tips Stonewall
Forrest said something about killing a Yankee for each of his horses that they shot. In the last days of the war, Forrest had killed 30 of the enemy and had 30 horses shot from under him. In a brief but savage conflict, a Yankee soldier "saw glory for himself" with an opportunity to kill the famous Confederate General... Forrest killed the fellow. Making 31 Yankees personally killed, and 30 horses lost...
He remarked, "I ended the war a horse ahead."
He remarked, "I ended the war a horse ahead."
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