TO&E & Replacements

[squarian]

After a series of costly battles, I have a number of bdes which have elements and are stripped down to artillery alone. I know that each brigade has a set TO&E, which can be read using the "combine" special order button. I have just noticed that in several cases, these bdes seem to have added one more artillery element than the TO&E says they can have - e.g. bde listed as allowed max of 1 gen, 2 inf, 1 cav & 1 art will actually have 2 art elements (and nothing else).

How does this happen - anyone ever seen it before or know why? More to the point, having apparently ceased to follow the TO&E, can these still bdes rebuild inf/cav elements or is it pointless keeping them sitting on a depot?

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Primasprit]

After a series of costly battles, I have a number of bdes which have elements and are stripped down to artillery alone. I know that each brigade has a set TO&E, which can be read using the "combine" special order button. I have just noticed that in several cases, these bdes seem to have added one more artillery element than the TO&E says they can have - e.g. bde listed as allowed max of 1 gen, 2 inf, 1 cav & 1 art will actually have 2 art elements (and nothing else).

How does this happen - anyone ever seen it before or know why? More to the point, having apparently ceased to follow the TO&E, can these still bdes rebuild inf/cav elements or is it pointless keeping them sitting on a depot?

Do you have a savegame at hand where I can see such an illegal replacement happen?

There has been a small problem about that before, that if a unit contained elements with a model UID which is different from the model UID of the model template (can happen due to tech upgrade) it was possible that this unit get a wrong replacement. The wrong replacement was an element with a correct model but could create an element too much of a certain family. The unit did not contain too much elements afterwards but could be 'unbalanced' in regard to the families.

This issue was fixed but I can double-check. A savegame would help greatly however.

Cheers
Norbert

[squarian]

Hope this is what you need - haven't had to post savegame files before. The elements in question are in McLaw's division in Norfolk.

[mikee64]

I have an unrelated question about replacing missing elements also. I have read the other recent threads about replacements and have been pleasantly informed (as many have said, no matter how long you play this game you always seem to learn something new.)

Here is my question: I have a brigade sitting in Richmond VA in need of missing cav elements, and another in Houston TX (the TX Rgr Bde) also missing cav elements. Last turn, the bde in VA got a replacement element, but the TX one did not. However, when I check the replacement "chits" I still had cav replacements available.

I am playing with hardened attrition, but Richmond is a big city and Houston has a depot. The Rangers have previously received a replacement element so I know they can be built up to strength there. So is there a % associated with each "chit" not being able to replace more than one full element? Or as is often the case am I missing something more obvious here?

EDIT: both units are inside the structure and in passive posture.

thanks!

[mikee64]

Why am I not surprised no one (except Pocus) really knows the inner workings of this.

Actually it's kind of turned into a different mystery: I've had the Tx Rgr unit sitting inside Houston now for 4 turns w/o adding its 3rd missing cav regiment. Each turn I've ended with cav replacement chits available. There is a depot and the city is not beseiged. All my other units with missing cav elements were replaced a couple turns back.

Can anyone confirm this unit will actually accept 3 regiments as its TO&E says? This is the first game I've played since this unit has been added.

Any ideas?

[Redeemer]

It says it can have 3, but I have yet been able to get it there.

[mikee64]

Thanks Redeemer, I suspected that might be the problem. Hopefully someone who knows more about the inner workings than me can check it in the DB.

[soloswolf]

It will definitely take three. I have always added them to it manually rather than waiting for it to happen, so I never noticed that it didn't get it through replacements.

[W.Barksdale]

Historically speaking it should be the 8th and 11th Texas cavalry. If there is 3 spots then yay for that.

Personally I'd classify these guys as mounted infantry. They did not fight on horseback.

[mikee64]

Do you have a savegame at hand where I can see such an illegal replacement happen?

There has been a small problem about that before, that if a unit contained elements with a model UID which is different from the model UID of the model template (can happen due to tech upgrade) it was possible that this unit get a wrong replacement. The wrong replacement was an element with a correct model but could create an element too much of a certain family. The unit did not contain too much elements afterwards but could be 'unbalanced' in regard to the families.

This issue was fixed but I can double-check. A savegame would help greatly however.

Cheers
Norbert

Prima, did you ever take a look at this or get a saved game you could use? I just had it happen with Wilcox under the current patch. His TOE says 2 line inf., 1 cav and 1 arty. But you can see below he has accepted 2 arty elements.

Let me know if you still need (another) saved game.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[mikee64]

So Gray, it IS possible to troubleshoot with just screenshots. jk man, jk.

A related element replacement issue. Apparently if you manage to get enough elite infantry destroyed as I have done, the flavor names run out and the replacement elements are generically named. Or something like that. At any rate its obviously purely cosmetic.

See the once proud Georgia bgde:

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Eugene Carr]

The elite infantry dont have flavour names in the DB.

I expect you could put the original names in and have the regiments reform?

$GA|13th Georgia|26th Georgia|31st Georgia|38th Georgia|60th Georgia|61st Georgia§$VA|2nd Virginia|4th Virginia|5th & 27th Virginia|33rd Virginia

or you could copy the flavour list from the other infantry units and any gaps would be filled with the first available names.

S!

[mikee64]

It will definitely take three. I have always added them to it manually rather than waiting for it to happen, so I never noticed that it didn't get it through replacements.

This quote was in reference to the TX Ranger Bgde discussed above. It did indeed used to accept a 3rd element via manual addition only. However in the current beta patch it now only accepts a total of two elements; you can no longer add the third. Not sure if this was an intentional change or not.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[mikee64]

Yes, intentional. There was a scripting error resulting in a conflict between the defined unit used and the specific usage of it within the event description.

Simplified explanation: We made the two of them "match up". Also, there was no historical documentation supporting 3 elements in this unit.

Excellent, as usual. Thanks! Were you still able to use the "hint" from this situation to get the elite MO bgde in with an open replacement slot for the SS unit that the player can fill in? Or was the whole notion just done away with?

When is your trip to the battlefields? I want to try to get the rest of my Gettysburg pictures up soon and am also curious when the downtime will be for no more quickfixes/patch updates for a while!

[W.Barksdale]

Were you still able to use the "hint" from this situation to get the elite MO bgde in with an open replacement slot for the SS unit that the player can fill in? Or was the whole notion just done away with?

Right now I believe the 5th MO will show up as a separate elite reinforcement. I don't think it can be manually added to the 1st Missouri bde.

While company K wasn't officially a sharpshooter unit I'm working on finding some records as to when exactly some the marksmen in this outfit received Kerr rifles. They are very similar to sharpshooter rifles which is why I wanted to give them the sharpshooter trait.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[mikee64]

This is the way the appearance/reinforcement of the MO brigade happened in my current game, using latest beta patch and RC14. It doesn't really match either of what was said above:

Late January, MO bde arrives in Ozarks. On the early Feb. turn I get a message that they have received an "Infantry (elite)" replacement, and indeed they have:



The infantry replacement was added automatically and now appears to need a name?

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Eugene Carr]

Darn, the game filled in the missing replacement element before the reinforcement unit (element) was available. Not sure if I can do anything about that currently.

I'll have to think on this on a bit.

I think you need to set the number of elements in the Param0 column AND fill the blanks with NULL to keep them empty for manual filling.

eg:
3rd Missouri|2nd Missouri|1stMissouri|1st Missouri Cav.|Clarke's Art. Bty.|Wade's Art. Bty.|Null|Null

There aren't any flavour names for the elite regiments in the models DB hence no name for replacements.

S! EC

[mikee64]

Darn, the game filled in the missing replacement element before the reinforcement unit (element) was available. Not sure if I can do anything about that currently.

I'll have to think on this on a bit.

What about whatever method was used for the TX Ranger bgde initially where you could only fill the element manually? Is that what EugeneCarr is talking about above?

[mikee64]

As of RC17 the TX Rgr Bde now appears initially with only the 8th Texas regiment element. It's TO&E says it can now accept only 2 regiments total, which agrees with comments earlier in this thread.

But now the 2nd element does not get added via replacement as it did before the TO&E change; you have to add it manually like you used to have to do for the 3rd element.

Just wondering if this is still WAD.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[mikee64]

It looks like in the current version the Texas Rgr Bde will automatically receive its second missing element via replacement on the early June 1862 turn.

[mikee64]

It appears that what was mentioned in the early posts of this thread is still happening: I'm in a PBEM in March 1863 of the big campaign w/ KY and the current game version, and Longstreet's brigade has received an artillery unit instead of the infantry it should have gotten via auto-replacement. In addition (or perhaps as a bonus) his brigade got a picture of a cannon instead of infantry:



I know at one time there was some confusion over artillery models or something with regards to this (6 vs. 12 pdr), but in this case we have a 12 pounder replacing an infantry regiment.