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Johnny Canuck
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A Few Questions . . .

Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:11 pm

I've been playing with the v1.06a demo of this remarkable game, and have a few questions:

1. Is there a way to review the stipulations of an opponents war plan after the initial war plans phase? For example, when I get to the regular August military phase as the CP, I wanted to check just what the French & Russians were mandated to do - is there a way to do this, or do I need to write down the details of their war plans when they are revealed to me?

2. In the initial turns, when movement is more important, is there any reason to keep your slower corps & artillery in the first line, as opposed to moving them to reserves? By moving them to the reserves, my armies seem to move faster, which is essential for i.e. the German sweep through Belgium. Is there any disadvantage to doing this?

3. Regarding rail conversion, I understand that you have to move a unit into the province to convert it. However, what happens if you move a unit with the rail conversion order through multiple provinces that have rail needing conversion? For example, say I give a cavalry corps the rail conversion order, and order it to move through two provinces, both of which have railways that need conversion. Does it convert the rail in the first province it enters, or in the province it ends its movement in?

My apologies if I overlooked the answers to these questions in the manual, and thanks! :)

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calvinus
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:50 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote:1. Is there a way to review the stipulations of an opponents war plan after the initial war plans phase? For example, when I get to the regular August military phase as the CP, I wanted to check just what the French & Russians were mandated to do - is there a way to do this, or do I need to write down the details of their war plans when they are revealed to me?


No such feature now, sorry.

Johnny Canuck wrote:2. In the initial turns, when movement is more important, is there any reason to keep your slower corps & artillery in the first line, as opposed to moving them to reserves? By moving them to the reserves, my armies seem to move faster, which is essential for i.e. the German sweep through Belgium. Is there any disadvantage to doing this?


You move faster, but you haven't "good" units in reserve... other ideas? :blink:

Johnny Canuck wrote:3. Regarding rail conversion, I understand that you have to move a unit into the province to convert it. However, what happens if you move a unit with the rail conversion order through multiple provinces that have rail needing conversion? For example, say I give a cavalry corps the rail conversion order, and order it to move through two provinces, both of which have railways that need conversion. Does it convert the rail in the first province it enters, or in the province it ends its movement in?


The rail is converted in all crossed areas. Rail conversion is going anyway to be improved, as follows:

- Enemy rail tracks are now converted by corps located in conquered areas, at the end of each Interphase

Next patch. :love:

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Johnny Canuck
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:23 pm

calvinus wrote:You move faster, but you haven't "good" units in reserve... other ideas? :blink:


True, but having the artillery in reserve may be useful (i.e doesn't slow down detachments of the army, but can be used by the detachments if they encounter opposition).


calvinus wrote:The rail is converted in all crossed areas. Rail conversion is going anyway to be improved, as follows:

- Enemy rail tracks are now converted by corps located in conquered areas, at the end of each Interphase

Next patch. :love:


Interesting change, but wouldn't it slow down the initial German advance into Belgium if they can't convert rail until the Nov.-Dec. 1914 Interphase? Unless I'm misunderstanding the supply rules (which is entirely possible ;) ), the Germans need some of those tracks repaired ASAP to keep the I, II, & III Armies advancing into France.


P.S. Thanks for the quick response. I'm amazed at how fast you respond to questions & how involved you are in the forum! :thumbsup:

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Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:49 pm

its true that if you have all your arty in reserve you'll move faster. but the disadvantage is that if you get in a battle, you'll not be able to immediatly get that arty into the 1st line.

especially if your in a large battle, it'll take a few rounds before you can get arty to both flanks.

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Flop
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:18 am

Johnny Canuck wrote:Interesting change, but wouldn't it slow down the initial German advance into Belgium if they can't convert rail until the Nov.-Dec. 1914 Interphase? Unless I'm misunderstanding the supply rules (which is entirely possible ;) ), the Germans need some of those tracks repaired ASAP to keep the I, II, & III Armies advancing into France.


I'm concerned about this, too. Wouldn't it be better to do it after each movement phase? Other than that, it sounds like a good change.

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calvinus
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:34 am

Johnny Canuck wrote:True, but having the artillery in reserve may be useful (i.e doesn't slow down detachments of the army, but can be used by the detachments if they encounter opposition).


Yes exactly! Bravo! :thumbsup:

Johnny Canuck wrote:Interesting change, but wouldn't it slow down the initial German advance into Belgium if they can't convert rail until the Nov.-Dec. 1914 Interphase? Unless I'm misunderstanding the supply rules (which is entirely possible ;) ), the Germans need some of those tracks repaired ASAP to keep the I, II, & III Armies advancing into France.


Mmh.. I don't agree... You have simply to leave some dummy corps behind your lines, garrisoning the rail tracks that will be so automatically converted at the end of Nov.-Dec. 1914 turn. The core of the German Army can instead advance at normal speed. :)

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calvinus
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:35 am

Flop wrote:I'm concerned about this, too. Wouldn't it be better to do it after each movement phase? Other than that, it sounds like a good change.


Indeed I'm evaluating exactly such an opportunity, but I'm a bit puzzled about the consequences on the gameplay... suggestions???? :neener:

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calvinus
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:36 am

patrat wrote:its true that if you have all your arty in reserve you'll move faster. but the disadvantage is that if you get in a battle, you'll not be able to immediatly get that arty into the 1st line.

especially if your in a large battle, it'll take a few rounds before you can get arty to both flanks.


Also this point is true... :love:

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Johnny Canuck
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:50 pm

calvinus wrote:Mmh.. I don't agree... You have simply to leave some dummy corps behind your lines, garrisoning the rail tracks that will be so automatically converted at the end of Nov.-Dec. 1914 turn. The core of the German Army can instead advance at normal speed. :)


You're quite right that converting the rail would be relatively easy, in terms of leaving behind the weakest corps. My concern is with the initial German advance through Belgium - if rails cannot be repaired until Nov.-Dec., it greatly restricts German movement, since their suppply will have to come from railheads in Germany. This in turn means that at least one of the left-wing HQs will have to remain within two provinces of these railheads (in practice, in the Liege/Namur area), so as to be able to act as a supply relay for those forces going forward. In practice, such a change would mean the Germans would probably be only able to have a single army advance from Belgium to France during the initial stages & still maintain supply, which for all intents & purposes makes seizing Paris impossible.

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Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:06 pm

I think I agree with Johnny. Indeed, it seems to me that right now, the convert rails thing does not work very well, at least in army-by-army mode.

Even when I have separate corps (independent and assigned) that start and end their turns in the same area, and on which I click the Convert button during activation phase, often the rails do not get converted the next turn.

Sometimes they convert sometimes they don't, but I'd say it happens about 50% of the time.

As an example, in my ongoing campaign, it is Jan-Feb 1916, and I STILL have not managed to get the rails just over the border from Thionville & Luxembourg converted.

This raises a question for me: Would actual combat corps have been that effective at converting rails anyway? Would combat troops have actually done that kind of work?

While I can see the automatic conversion after a certain number of turns as being one solution, I do think the player should have some capacity to speedily convert. Maybe in addition to all controlled areas converting with 2 to 3 months, give the Major Powers one or two Engineer Corps which have movement of 5 and can automatically convert an entire region immediately at a cost of 2 movement? In army-by-army mode, this would allow for s semi-blitzkrieg kind of advance, albeit quite limited in scale.

I noticed that Bulgarian and Greek units cannot convert Serbian rails to CP rails. Was that intentional?

A couple of other related points: the highlighting effect that is intended to signal Convert ON/OFF is not clear. Moreover, sometimes (in army-by-army mode), or maybe always, when you click on a corps that is attached to an Army it [seems to] automatically select Convert ON for all the corps attached in that Army. This can make it difficult to know for certain if you have or have not actually given the command to convert a particular area.

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dougbush93
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:48 pm

Rail conversion works pretty well right now, even though it is a lot of extra work. Not being able to convert without moving is kind of a pain, but one can work around it. No need to break something in the game that works. I think people having trouble are not clicking the button to convert before they put in the move order.

I think the way to go would be to keep the current convert-by-movement system in place and then ADD the convert-at-interphase feature discussed by Calvinus.

Doug

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dougbush93
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:52 pm

calvinus wrote:Yes exactly! Bravo! :thumbsup:



Mmh.. I don't agree... You have simply to leave some dummy corps behind your lines, garrisoning the rail tracks that will be so automatically converted at the end of Nov.-Dec. 1914 turn. The core of the German Army can instead advance at normal speed. :)


If the Germans intend to get to Paris, they have to be able to convert some rail spaces before the end of the Nov-Dec turn. Otherwise you can't string the HQs / Relays together reaching all the way back to Germany. Can't be done. Same problem in Poland - Germans have to be able to convert spaces before Nov-Dec '14 in order to reach Warsaw (coming from Breslau or Posen) and stay in supply.

Doug

vonRocko
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Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:13 pm

dougbush93 wrote:Rail conversion works pretty well right now, even though it is a lot of extra work. Not being able to convert without moving is kind of a pain, but one can work around it. No need to break something in the game that works. I think people having trouble are not clicking the button to convert before they put in the move order.

I think the way to go would be to keep the current convert-by-movement system in place and then ADD the convert-at-interphase feature discussed by Calvinus.

Doug


I agree with Doug. :thumbsup:

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Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:04 pm

vonRocko wrote:I agree with Doug. :thumbsup:


Are you guys playing with all the most complex movement rules turned on, "army-by-army" mode?

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Flop
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:30 pm

dougbush93 wrote:Rail conversion works pretty well right now, even though it is a lot of extra work. Not being able to convert without moving is kind of a pain, but one can work around it. No need to break something in the game that works.


Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that one of the problems with the rail system as it is now, is that you can order a stack to convert rail, then attack an enemy province. Even if your attack fails, the rails in that province will be converted, which is a pain for the enemy, since they then have to move a unit into that province to convert the rails back again. France has done this to me at least once in every game I've played with Germany, so far (although I haven't had much of a chance to test the latest patch).

calvinus wrote:Indeed I'm evaluating exactly such an opportunity, but I'm a bit puzzled about the consequences on the gameplay... suggestions???? :neener:


As far as I can tell the consequences on the gameplay by converting railways at the end of each movement phase (or at the end of each turn), would be less than if it was done only after each interphase. It would clear up the problem of the enemy converting your railways each time they attack one your provinces, and it would also allow a unit to convert rails without having to move. The only downside that I can see is that you can only convert rails in one province per unit per turn (not that big a deal, since that's usually the case anyway, I believe).

If you only converted rails once every interphase you still clear up the problems of the enemy converting your rails when they fail an attack in a province, and you don't have to move to convert rails. But there are several downsides. As mentioned above, Germany probably wouldn't be able to take Paris in 1914, since you have to wait a long time to have your supply lines "updated". Also, you would have to free up a lot of units for converting rails, since you'd have to have at least one unit in each occupied, unconverted province during the interphase.

So, as I see it, the best solution would be to convert all rails in all occupied provinces (that contains one of your units, obviously), at the end of each military phase (or in any other phase, for that matter, as long as it's done once every turn, including the pre-turn).

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calvinus
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:57 pm

Flop wrote:So, as I see it, the best solution would be to convert all rails in all occupied provinces (that contains one of your units, obviously), at the end of each military phase (or in any other phase, for that matter, as long as it's done once every turn, including the pre-turn).


Perhaps so it's too much. I would prefer to convert the rails of all occupied areas at the end of the Interphase, not the military phase, but without the need of your units' presence. :blink:

Edit: so it's very similar to the original boardgame rule. :)

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Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:17 pm

Flop wrote:Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that one of the problems with the rail system as it is now, is that you can order a stack to convert rail, then attack an enemy province. Even if your attack fails, the rails in that province will be converted, which is a pain for the enemy, since they then have to move a unit into that province to convert the rails back again. France has done this to me at least once in every game I've played with Germany, so far (although I haven't had much of a chance to test the latest patch).


I have never seen that happen.

As far as I can tell the consequences on the gameplay by converting railways at the end of each movement phase (or at the end of each turn), would be less than if it was done only after each interphase. It would clear up the problem of the enemy converting your railways each time they attack one your provinces, and it would also allow a unit to convert rails without having to move.


"without having to move" ??

Units have to "move" to convert rails?

Or do you mean they have to expend movement points?

If they actually are supposed to have to move it might explain the troubles I'm having in army-by-army mode.

The only downside that I can see is that you can only convert rails in one province per unit per turn (not that big a deal, since that's usually the case anyway, I believe).


My understanding of the convert rails function was that: any unit that has enough movement points can convert rails in as many province/areas as it has enough movement points at a cost of 1 (or in some cases 2) MPs per province converted. Thus my understanding was that the number of provinces you can convert in a turn is simply a function of the number of stacks and their movements points: more stacks and more movement points = capacity to convert more areas rails each turn (assuming the stacks are in range of the areas to be converted).

You seem to be alluding to something a bit different though, as in: some kind of intrinsic limit on the number of provinces that can be converted per turn?

I decided to do some searching in the manual.

First I searched for "conver" then I searched for "rail."

"Rail" occurs pretty frequently in the manual, but not many of these refer to rail conversion.

Below is a compilation of quotes including every section with either text string ("conver" or "rail") which gives information salient to rail conversion. (Page numbers for each quoted section) with the sections separated by elipsis and a line.

(p36) Units using administrative movement cannot use rail, nor convert rail, nor move by sea. . . .

(p36) Railroad Conversion
To use a captured enemy railroad (for movement and supply), it is first
necessary to “convert” it to the standard railroad of one’s side (and repair
damages and the inferred sabotages suffered). . . .

(p37) An infantry unit must pass over the railroad to be converted, using 1 extra MP. Neither cavalry, nor artillery, nor an HQ may convert it.
One may convert several rail regions at one time, with one or several units,
beginning first with the connected region (then the following ones).
Rails may also be converted during an enemy Reaction. . . .

(p37) A region with a besieged enemy fortress cannot be converted, as long as the fortress has not been taken. . . .

(p37) Russian Railroads
Russian railroads do not have the same gauge as the others. As a result,
to use conquered Russian railroads, the Central Powers must use 2 extra
MP (instead of 1) to convert a region with an infantry unit. . . .

(p82)Conversion of Rails
All conquered rail sections are automatically converted (if they may be
connected to your network). . . . .

(p150) Rail Conversion
The Russian railways did not use the same gauge as others. Russia must
spend 2 MP (instead of 1) to convert a railway region (with an infantry unit)


Based on this, I'm not certain how railroad conversion is supposed to work.

This part right here:

(p37) An infantry unit must pass over the railroad to be converted, using 1 extra MP. Neither cavalry, nor artillery, nor an HQ may convert it.


Seems wrong to me because I used a detachment of the IV Army that had ONLY an Arty corps in it to convert the rails in Vittel in the railroad conversion test I did!

Also, I've seen guys on here refer to "using cavalry counters" to convert rails. That is just hearsay, but I know I saw someone say it on here.

Rails may also be converted during an enemy Reaction. . . .


That part seems to reflect the problem you were talking about where areas get converted whenever they area attacked?

Based on the quote from page (82) I get the impression that the way rail conversion works may have been changed around a couple times during beta versions, and the manual does not necessarily reflect the last engine changes?

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calvinus
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:53 pm

Yes Anthropoid, you must also move the troops, not simply press the convert button. Conversion requires spending of MPs, so movement is a need.
Next patch however contains the feature of automatic conversion, as anticipated in post #2 of this thread.

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Johnny Canuck
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:02 pm

I wonder if it might be easier to approach rail conversion a bit differently - still keep the MP cost, but have it applied before movement, not after. In other words, you can only convert rails in a province that starts with a unit in it. If so, you then press the convert button for the appropriate unit, the rails are immediately converted, and the appropriate MP deduction is made from the unit for that turn only. That would make things a bit more transparent and easy to use - i.e. rail conversion happens right away, no worrying about whether you set movement before giving the rail conversion order, etc. It would also eliminate the issue of rails being converted after movement but before battles.

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calvinus
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:10 pm

Rails are not convered after the move, but during the move. It means when you enter an area whose rails (if present) are to be converted, the conversion is done and the additional MP(s) are spent. So you suggest you to make things worse, not better. ;)

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Johnny Canuck
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:05 pm

calvinus wrote:Rails are not convered after the move, but during the move. It means when you enter an area whose rails (if present) are to be converted, the conversion is done and the additional MP(s) are spent. So you suggest you to make things worse, not better. ;)


What I was thinking was that rails be converted before the move, as opposed to during, or more precisely, that rails be converted the moment a player presses the 'convert rail' button. :)

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Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:12 pm

I think it is a bit silly that a unit has to move to convert rails. When you consider the complicated nature of inter-army movement coordination in army-by-army mode, this silly little feature can become downright annoying! :bonk:

Johnny Canuck wrote:What I was thinking was that rails be converted before the move, as opposed to during, or more precisely, that rails be converted the moment a player presses the 'convert rail' button. :)


I think this is the way to go if it is at all possible to code it that way.

If a unit has enough MPs (1 or 2) the rail conversion button is "clickable."

Click the button, *poof* the rails convert. If the unit still has any movement left, it can then move too.

Changing it to be that way, combined with the automatic conversion of all occupied territories within 2 turns of their becoming occupied would be the ideal I think. It would then allow for a rapid advance and extension of a rail network, and also reduce the tedium of having to manually convert every single territory.

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Flop
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:55 pm

Anthropoid wrote:I have never seen that happen.


It does happen once in a while. Since the conversion takes place during the move, as Calvinus says, the game doesn't take account of who controls the province, which means it's converted even if the enemy loses the battle and retreats. Of course, the AI doesn't always issue convert rail orders before attacking, so it only happens once in a while.

Anthropoid wrote:"without having to move" ??

Units have to "move" to convert rails?

Or do you mean they have to expend movement points?

If they actually are supposed to have to move it might explain the troubles I'm having in army-by-army mode.


I'm pretty sure that would explain it. You have to move into a province to convert the rails, the one you start your turn in is unaffected. It can be rather annoying at times, actually, since if you forget to issue the convert rails order (or if the enemy converted your rails in an attack), you have to spend a turn moving a unit out of the province, and another to move it back in, to convert the rails (unless of course you have another unit to spare in an adjacent province).

Anthropoid wrote:My understanding of the convert rails function was that: any unit that has enough movement points can convert rails in as many province/areas as it has enough movement points at a cost of 1 (or in some cases 2) MPs per province converted. Thus my understanding was that the number of provinces you can convert in a turn is simply a function of the number of stacks and their movements points: more stacks and more movement points = capacity to convert more areas rails each turn (assuming the stacks are in range of the areas to be converted).

You seem to be alluding to something a bit different though, as in: some kind of intrinsic limit on the number of provinces that can be converted per turn?


Actually, I was pretty much talking about the movement points you have to spend. With an infantry piece in optimal terrain, you usually won't be able to convert more than two regions before running out of movement points. Less in bad terrain, or when crossing rivers. I think cavalry spends 2 movement points to convert rails, so they won't be able to convert more than 2 regions maximum.

calvinus wrote:Perhaps so it's too much. I would prefer to convert the rails of all occupied areas at the end of the Interphase, not the military phase, but without the need of your units' presence. :blink:

Edit: so it's very similar to the original boardgame rule. :)


Ok, I thought you meant that the player had to station troops in all the regions they wanted to convert, so this is certainly better. I'm still concerned that it will cripple the German chances for taking Paris in 1914, though, but I guess it's worth a shot.

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Aphrodite Mae
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Annoying French rail raiders

Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:15 am

Talking about enemy units converting rail in regions they lose a battle in (and retreat from) Flop said,
"It does happen once in a while. Since the conversion takes place during the move, as Calvinus says, the game doesn't take account of who controls the province, which means it's converted even if the enemy loses the battle and retreats. Of course, the AI doesn't always issue convert rail orders before attacking, so it only happens once in a while."

I'm here to tell you that it happens a lot! This has been driving me crazy with the French, and it completely defies logic. (At least, to me.) The French are doing these itty-bitty little sissified raids against my armies all along the French Front... no casualties, no one hurt, no engagement... just the battle results screen with zeros in all categories for both sides... and then lo and behold, I look and find that the rails have been converted! And suddenly, there's a big, hateful French tri-color on a railroad post, happily wavin' over my enormous apocalyptic army of doom that I have poised on the border. So, suddenly, this big phat army that I've got sitting there that's just lookin' for trouble has the rails converted right under their nose?! That's ridiculous! [font="Times New Roman"]<indignant snort!>[/font] To me, the answer seems clear. Successful rail conversion should be contingent upon actually owning the place! Everybody who agrees with me, rattle your saber! [SIZE="1"](Or snort indignantly, or something like that. But don't be rude, OK?)[/size]

OK, this brings up something else. Were the national rail standards actually different, between France and German and the lowland countries? I certainly understand that the Russians did things quite differently, and so it makes sense that their rails would have a different gauge... but it seems to me that prior to the war, France and Germany would have had a lot of trade going on, and rail was the primary carrier at that time. (Guess I'll have to pull out "Railroad Tycoon II: Platinum Edition" to check it out. :D ) Seriously, though... were the track gauges different? Just wondering.

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Franciscus
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:43 am

I have not been playing, due to RL time constraints and to a feeling that WW1 will require a great amount of it ;) , but have been following more or less the forum discussions and I can not help but feel that this "rail conversion" rules are a bit messy and convoluted.
1. AFAIK, gauges were the same in western europe, they were only different in Russia. So, yes, invading Russia gave serious logistic problems to the CP, and yes they needed to "convert" (build new ?) rails
2. In the west, the problem could arrise when a retreating enemy destroyed rails (AFAIK it was not done much in august-September 1914, due to the speed of retreat of the allies :D ), or bridges (this was done in Belgium and represented an important logistic problem to the germans, but relatively more quick to solve than the rail problem in the east ?).
3. So, I thjink that what the rules are trying to represent are 2 very different things - bridge repairs in Belgium/France, new rails in Russia/Prussia
4. BUT this is a game, and as it stands the rule is not gamer friendly. Why do we have to move to convert ? (although it also will happen automatically at the end of each interphase IIRC ?). Why not use the much more simple mechanics of AACW, were we simple give a stack an order to repair rails, and that's it ??. And is it REALLY needed on the WESTERN front, specially in a corps-level game as WW1 , and one were due to other rules the armies will get static much of the time ?? Why was it not abstracted the presence of engineers in the army/corps automatically doing "simple" bridge repairs, if I may ask ??

Regards

(waiting for a time when I will have more(free) time :bonk :)

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Johnny Canuck
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:03 am

Franciscus wrote:And is it REALLY needed on the WESTERN front, specially in a corps-level game as WW1 , and one were due to other rules the armies will get static much of the time ?? Why was it not abstracted the presence of engineers in the army/corps automatically doing "simple" bridge repairs, if I may ask ??


Regarding the Western Front, I think a primary reason for the current system is to force the German player, when advancing through Belgium, to separate several corps from his main advance to repair duty. This represents, I suspect, the fact that the overall German advance was hindered by a lack of supplies (outrunning their railheads) and the need for some of the advancing forces to remain behind for occupation duties. In that sense, I can see what the game is trying to do, but I completely agree that the system for doing so could be more user-friendly.

Plus I completely agree that, regardless of what changes are made, the ability to convert rails in enemy-controlled provinces (as Aphrodite Mae described) needs to be removed. A simple control-check should suffice.

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Franciscus
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:21 am

Johnny Canuck wrote:Regarding the Western Front, I think a primary reason for the current system is to force the German player, when advancing through Belgium, to separate several corps from his main advance to repair duty. This represents, I suspect, the fact that the overall German advance was hindered by a lack of supplies (outrunning their railheads) and the need for some of the advancing forces to remain behind for occupation duties. In that sense, I can see what the game is trying to do, but I completely agree that the system for doing so could be more user-friendly.


Yes , I agree that we are dealing with abstractions and representations of real world problems. But why represent supply problems (not due only to bridges but probably mainly due to the speed of the German advance) and occupation duties (a very different problem) with a "rail conversion" mechanism ?? And how many front line corps were separated to real repair duties during August-September 1914 ??

Johnny Canuck wrote:Plus I completely agree that, regardless of what changes are made, the ability to convert rails in enemy-controlled provinces (as Aphrodite Mae described) needs to be removed. A simple control-check should suffice.


I do not know and I may ( :p apy :o f course :p apy :) be wrong, but maybe as the rule stands now, it allows to a corps to advance, engage the enemy, WIN a battle, occupy the region AND convert the rails (not bad, IMHO). The behavior noted by Aphrodite Mae may be difficult to erradicate without changing this rule...

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Johnny Canuck
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:30 am

Franciscus wrote:I do not know and I may ( :p apy :o f course :p apy :) be wrong, but maybe as the rule stands now, it allows to a corps to advance, engage the enemy, WIN a battle, occupy the region AND convert the rails (not bad, IMHO). The behavior noted by Aphrodite Mae may be difficult to erradicate without changing this rule...


Unfortunately, that is not how it currently works. :( As calvinus said above, conversion happens during movement, not after, which means it also happens before combat.

I've even managed to (accidently) do this myself. I sent a single corps to occupy an empty Belgian province & convert the rails. Upon arrival, however, it was intercepted by a French army and annihilated. Imagine my surprise when I saw afterwards that, though the province remained Belgian, the rails had been converted to German! :bonk:

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calvinus
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:06 am

Johnny is right. I'm still puzzled and struggled on how to do the best solution. Still wondering if the automatic conversion at the end of Interphases is good and enough... :neener:

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Flop
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:21 pm

I humbly think that my suggestion is best. :D

If all unconverted rails in occupied regions containing troops were to automatically convert after the movement phase, that would mean:

1) Conversion takes place after - not during - movement, so you will only be able to convert rails in regions you control.

2) Your units would now be able to convert rails without having to move.

3) Germany would have a chance to take Paris in 1914, since it can update its supply lines each turn, this way.

There are a few drawbacks, compared to the system used now:

1) any unit or stack would only be able to convert rails in one province per turn (the one it ends the turn in), meaning that more units would probably have to be used for that purpose. I don't think this would be crippling for Germany in 1914, though.

2) You would not be able to use the rails until the following turn (still better than not being able to use them until the interphase imo).

This approach could be combined with the interphase approach. That way you'd only have to convert enough rails to keep your armies supplied, and could wait for the interphase to have the rest of the rails converted automatically, thereby saving you units for other purposes.

Anyway, I suppose I may have overlooked something. What do you think?

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