6lbs guns in 1863

[aryaman]

Hi all
It is usually assumed that 6lbs guns were quickly replaced by Napoleons as they were obsolete, and that is represented in the game by the techup of the light arty units to Napoleons, however I was taking a look to the Osprey book on Chickamauga, that list the guns by type used by both sides in the battle (September 19 1863).
CSA Total: 125 guns, of which 40 are 6lbs and another 40 12lbs howitzer (those in the game also represented in the light batteries) plus 16x12 lbs light guns (not sure which ones are these). No Napoleon and only 29 rifled guns, of which 11 had been taken to Union troops at Murfreesboro.
UNION Total: 192, of them only 10 smoothbore 6lbs, 16x12lbs light guns and 16x12lbs Howitzer, but even more surprisingly, 32x6lbs James rifled guns, that is old smoothbore 6lbs rebored.
So, It is clear that at least in the Western Theater, light batteries still played a vital role by the end of 1863, maybe the present techup system in the game should be modified according to these data.

[soloswolf]

Just bumping this to see what folks think about this. Should the numbers change? Is that a big deal to change? Is there more data to support the change?

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[cwhomer]

Here's some information regarding artillery at Antietam.

Common name: 6-lb. Gun

Employment at Sharpsburg: At least 58 of these pieces saw service in Confederate batteries at Sharpsburg, but none were known to be used by the Federals on the Campaign.

For 12lb artillery of all types:

Common name: Napoleon

Employment at Sharpsburg: There were about 130 Napoleons in Federal Service at Antietam and 30 or more pieces in Confederate batteries. Find units equipped with these.

Common name: 12-lb. Howitzer

Employment at Sharpsburg: There were 3 12-lb. howitzers in Federal Service at Antietam and 58 pieces in Confederate batteries. Find units equipped with these.

Common name: 12-lb James

Employment at Sharpsburg: There may have been only four of these guns at Antietam, all in Federal service. Find units equipped with these.

http://aotw.org/weapons.php?weapon_id=all

To summarize:

6lbs: Union, 0
Confederate,58

12lbs: Union, 137
Confederate, 88

Total Artillery during Maryland Campaign:

Union, 326
Confederate, 199

Therefore by Antietam both main Eastern armies relied heavily on 12lb artillery, which made up 42% of the AotP's guns and 44% of the ANV's. The ANV continued to use 6lb artillery, which accounted for another 29% of its guns, but the AtoP had, apparently, phased them out.

[aryaman]

Here's some information regarding artillery at Antietam.



For 12lb artillery of all types:







To summarize:

6lbs: Union, 0
Confederate,58

12lbs: Union, 137
Confederate, 88

Total Artillery during Maryland Campaign:

Union, 326
Confederate, 199

Therefore by Antietam both main Eastern armies relied heavily on 12lb artillery, which made up 42% of the AotP's guns and 44% of the ANV's. The ANV continued to use 6lb artillery, which accounted for another 29% of its guns, but the AtoP had, apparently, phased them out.

That is an extremely interesting link, I will add the data to my thread on Artillery Historical Data here
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=12859

However the game doesn´t model the 12lbs Howitzer, despite of its great importance early in the for CSA armies. IMO if anything it is included within the 6lbs model/unit, that represents light batteries, my reason to believe this is
1) Before the start of the war, the standard US Army Light Battery was composed of 4x6lbs guns and 2x12lbs Howitzers, this organization was kept early in the war in CSA armies, in the West longer than in the East, and in general 12lbs howitzer were paired with other guns because of their very short combat range.

2) The range of the 12lbs model is that of the Napoleon, not that of a howitzer.

So, if you add to the 6lbs guns the 12lbs howitzers, and count then as light batteries, you end up with a 58% of Light Batteries for the ANV at Antietam. Still, much less than in the West, where at Shiloh the combined number of 6lbs guns and 12lbs Howitzers were 100 over a total of 113, or 88% of light batteries.

[aryaman]

BTW, where did you get the totals? Adding those listed in the artillery section I got 327 for Union and 256(?) for CSA

[cwhomer]

BTW, where did you get the totals? Adding those listed in the artillery section I got 327 for Union and 256(?) for CSA

I added them up as well. I'd go with your totals, as I added them quickly and probably forgot to check them.

[Comtedemeighan]

A little Info about the 6 pounder.

Model 1841 6-pdr Gun
The 6-pdr was a popgun. Used extensively during the Mexican War, it was made obsolete by the increased range of the available infantry weapons as much as by the coming of better artillery.
Though fairly mobile at 900 pounds, it's softball-sized shot was entirely too small to do much damage and it could easily be outranged, especially once rifled guns came into play. Most sources give it a range of about 1500 yards, but this is being generous. No doubt the gun could throw a shot that far but, at that distance, it's small round projectile could hardly be accurate and would be easy for troops to avoid.
These guns existed in large numbers at the outbreak of hostilities, however, and were pressed into service by both sides. Both sides also got rid of them as quickly as possible.

At Gettysburg, there was only one of these guns on the field, that in Alexander Latham's battery in James Longstreet's I corps, Army of Northern Virginia.

I got this info from two sources

June 1996 issue of Camp Chase Gazette ( Vol. XXIII, No. 7 ) Article by Jim Morgan

A Concise Guide to the Artillery at Gettysburg‎
by Gregory A. Coco

[Redeemer]

Instead of getting rid of them, I thought most (especially on the CSA side) were rebored.

[aryaman]

Instead of getting rid of them, I thought most (especially on the CSA side) were rebored.

On the contrary, it was on the Union side that they were rebored. However this could be confusing because the resulting gun could be called variously a 6lbs James, a 3.8 inch James, or a 12lbs James, or simply a James Rifle. Here an explanation:

The 6lbs cannon was converted from a smoothbore to a rifled weapon by the James system of rifling, developed by General Charles T. James to accommodate his new shell, which required special rifling. Because the rifling allowed a larger shell to be fired, about 12 pounds, these guns were incorrectly referred to as 12-pounders. In some reports these guns were also referred to as “James Rifles,” which is also misleading since there was also a 14-pounder (3.8-inch) bronze field piece manufactured for General James in 1861, which carried the “James Rifle” nomenclature.
It should be noted that many of the 3.67-inch smoothbore guns were re-bored to 3.8-inches in order to make the bore interior completely smooth before rifling