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Carnium
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Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:33 am

Siekster wrote:I've only gotten to play the 1812 scenario once as the US side in a PBEM game. I was playing CristoFire, and by the time we were almost done, New York City, Fort Niagara and possibly Washington (we stopped when the 1.03 patch was released) were in British hands. Pretty embarrasing. Now, it could have been my lack of skill, but i got the feeling that the American Generals were not on par with their British counterparts. The American forces were also pretty fragmented, so if you wanted an army equivalent to the Brits invasion stacks, you had to pool them all together, leaving other areas exposed.

I admit, the big head start in VP's helped out a lot, but I think the Americans were fine as they were, considering their weaknesses. (The war was about maximizing your own side's strengths, which I failed to do.)

When deciding how to balance a scenario, the PBEM factor has to be weighed....


British player is in a race against time in this scenario, but I agree that US side should have more troops at his disposal.Basically FAR more militia units locked in the cities representing the fact, that they only defended their homes.
According to wikipedia the British army did not had (such) numerical advantage than in the game:
United States
•Regular Army:
— 7,000 (at start of war);
— 35,800 (at war's end)
•Rangers: 3,049
•Militia: 458,463 - Very few militia members left their homes to fight in the war's campaigns.


British Empire
•British Army:
— 5,200 (at start of war);
— 48,160 (at war's end)
•Provincial Regulars: 10,000
•Provincial Militia: 4,000

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lodilefty
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Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:00 pm

"counting noses"

USA eventually has ~41 regular infantry/dragoon units. we are pretty close to 35,800 allowing for weakened units, artillery, etc.

GBR ends up with ~61 regular infantry, most appear weakened [missing elements], so this lines up with 48,100...

this does not count any 'bought' with EP. These "EP" adds are a bit much perhaps. will look at fewer 'buys' available... after all, Napoleon had worn out the Brits, and many leaders didn't really want to send 'The Invinceables' to North America...

the issue seems to be USA militia garrisons [home guard].
We can add these, but only playtest will tell us if that's the right thing to do.

hehe, we can always take them out again ;)
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Carnium
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Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:09 pm

lodilefty wrote:
the issue seems to be USA militia garrisons [home guard].
We can add these, but only playtest will tell us if that's the right thing to do.

hehe, we can always take them out again ;)


True.This could actually solve the main problem that the US player has in this scenario namely badly defended cities or not defended cities at all.This allows the British player an easy advance once the main US border troops have been defeated.Basically US players has no "reserves" in this scenario because of the lack of the militia units (which in RL USA had plenty) and indeed has a huge problem defending because of this.

I would be really interested in play testing your changes before they become official.

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arsan
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Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:16 pm

Adding fixed milita garrisons looks like a good idea! :thumbsup:
How many militia units are needed to represent 458.468 men?? :blink: ;) :D

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Carnium
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Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:28 pm

arsan wrote:Adding fixed milita garrisons looks like a good idea! :thumbsup:
How many militia units are needed to represent 458.468 men?? :blink: ;) :D


Hmmm, these were probably all milita units that USA had at the end of the war.How many were actually active in the battle remains a mystery to me.
Adding fixed militia would be great, but maybe an event when militia would be recruited only after certain parts would be in danger of invasion would work too - but would require a lot of work.
The problem I see here is that US player should not get a HUGE number of units that he could somehow use for offensive actions, but a LARGE force of purely "home defence" units which would remain static/locked even when attacked.

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lodilefty
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Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:52 pm

Carnium wrote:Hmmm, these were probably all milita units that USA had at the end of the war.How many were actually active in the battle remains a mystery to me.
Adding fixed militia would be great, but maybe an event when militia would be recruited only after certain parts would be in danger of invasion would work too - but would require a lot of work.
The problem I see here is that US player should not get a HUGE number of units that he could somehow use for offensive actions, but a LARGE force of purely "home defence" units which would remain static/locked even when attacked.


Proposal:

Militia garrison in every town at declaration of war
+1 additional in each town 1813 spring
+1 additional in each town of a State if enemy units enter that state

probably won't get to 450000, but it's a start ;)
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Carnium
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Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:37 pm

lodilefty wrote:Proposal:

Militia garrison in every town at declaration of war
+1 additional in each town 1813 spring
+1 additional in each town of a State if enemy units enter that state

probably won't get to 450000, but it's a start ;)


Excellent proposal :thumbsup:
Can these units stay permanently fixed/static ?

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Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:22 pm

Lol!

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Siekster
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Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:25 pm

Very good ideas!!

Is there a way to implement a "state" trait to American soldiers, similar to the "Canadian" trait that some of the British irregulars have? That way if the militia attempted to leave the state they would be so heavily penalized that it wouldn't be worth it.
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Rafiki
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Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:17 am

How about leaving them perma-locked? With no movement ability? That way, you know they'll stay in their home towns?
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lodilefty
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Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:19 pm

To start, it will be more expedient to use existing Militia Garrisons and lock them if attacked, they will unlock].

After testing this, we can then consider truly 'perma-lock' units. My 'fear' is future confusion surrounding immobile militia. [AACW has this, and it took a while to figure out what was happening]

"State restrictive" units with penalty is a lot of work. More than I care to try right now.

I'd rather get 1812 ready, then Fallen Timbers, then 1775/76 [Lafayette events, Burgoyne arrival flexibility]..... :D
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arsan
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Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:03 pm

lodilefty wrote:To start, it will be more expedient to use existing Militia Garrisons and lock them if attacked, they will unlock].

Looks good enough to me! :thumbsup:

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Carnium
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Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:44 pm

lodilefty wrote:To start, it will be more expedient to use existing Militia Garrisons and lock them if attacked, they will unlock].

After testing this, we can then consider truly 'perma-lock' units. My 'fear' is future confusion surrounding immobile militia. [AACW has this, and it took a while to figure out what was happening]



Superb.Whatever you do will be an improvement :thumbsup:
I would prefer "perma-lock" units, but you cant have everything (right away) ;)

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Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:55 pm

Carnium wrote:Superb.Whatever you do will be an improvement :thumbsup:
I would prefer "perma-lock" units, but you cant have everything (right away) ;)


yes!

Walk before we run, then it's only a little mess to clean up ;)

Of course, it will force us to play test more :blink:
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Carnium
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Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:45 pm

lodilefty wrote:Of course, it will force us to play test more :blink:


Playing games is basically play testing for me :D
An old and bad habit :(

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lodilefty
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Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:33 pm

Carnium wrote:Playing games is basically play testing for me :D
An old and bad habit :(


hmm, I have same disease :wacko:

As soon as the patch is finalized, we will have the 1812 and Fallen Timbers ready for public testing as mods. Just don't dare introduce any more variables at this time... :blink:

...and 1812 will include static militia ;)
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Carnium
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Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:22 pm

lodilefty wrote:hmm, I have same disease :wacko:

As soon as the patch is finalized, we will have the 1812 and Fallen Timbers ready for public testing as mods. Just don't dare introduce any more variables at this time... :blink:

...and 1812 will include static militia ;)


Awesome :thumbsup:
I will gladly test it. I even bought two documentaries to be more familiar with this (for us EU people) quite forgotten war.

These two:
Image Image

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lodilefty
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Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:48 pm

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Carnium
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Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:03 pm

The new version of the War of 1812 is a HUGE improvement over the stock scenario :w00t: :thumbsup: :coeurs:
Playing as the British I have noticed that the US AI is more aggressive and also knows how to defend and reinforce its towns/forts.The new winter tactics of the AI work great as they now retreat to nearby cities when the snow falls.My advance is FAR slower than in the earlier games and I have not changed my tactics at all ;)
Playing a few turns I have noticed this:
-Tecumseh and his war band is still not visible/shown on the mini map.I mean he is not shown as the small dot on the mini map as all other units are.
- Tercio de St.Augustina unit has not text for unit name
- British Gananque depot is unguarded.WAD ?

More soon....

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Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:17 am

Tecumseh is actually modeled as faction IND, so the color for mini map may be inappropriate or very faint.

Will investigate text

Yes, that depot is unguarded for now. Should it be? Should it even be located there?
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Carnium
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Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:36 pm

lodilefty wrote:Tecumseh is actually modeled as faction IND, so the color for mini map may be inappropriate or very faint.

Will investigate text

Yes, that depot is unguarded for now. Should it be? Should it even be located there?


Strange thing is that all other Indian units are visible on the mini map
Image


I have found this about the depot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Gananoque
It seems that it should be there and guarded by a militia unit.

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Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:07 pm

Carnium wrote:Strange thing is that all other Indian units are visible on the mini map
Image


I have found this about the depot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Gananoque
It seems that it should be there and guarded by a militia unit.


Notice that Tecumseh is a different color in unit panel? I suspect the equivalent color isn't showing properly on minimap.
I'll have to learn how this works :o

Will add garrison to Gananoque :)
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Carnium
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Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:56 pm

lodilefty wrote:Notice that Tecumseh is a different color in unit panel? I suspect the equivalent color isn't showing properly on minimap.
I'll have to learn how this works :o


Yup, he seems to be a part of the green area on the mini map.Well hidden from the enemy (and the player) :D

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lodilefty
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I found the colors. Tinkering now :blink:
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TiFlo
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:04 pm

I should probably have opened a new thread for that, but since it's related to the War of 1812 scenarii, I'll just hijack this one :niark:

Playing the 1813 Great Lakes Campaign, as the British, against Athena, and with the game patched to 1.04c. I also have lodilefty's Community Modinstalled, but as it states that it only changes the 1812 Grand Campaign, I'm assuming it can not affect other scenarii.

I got several times that same bug with those events, that I'm not even sure to know what they do or are anyway. Here is a screenshot of one of those occurrences.

Image

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lodilefty
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:29 pm

TiFlo wrote:I should probably have opened a new thread for that, but since it's related to the War of 1812 scenarii, I'll just hijack this one :niark:

Playing the 1813 Great Lakes Campaign, as the British, against Athena, and with the game patched to 1.04c. I also have lodilefty's Community Modinstalled, but as it states that it only changes the 1812 Grand Campaign, I'm assuming it can not affect other scenarii.

I got several times that same bug with those events, that I'm not even sure to know what they do or are anyway. Here is a screenshot of one of those occurrences.

Image

Saved game attached.


erf
an old version of Replacements events. :o
will fix

Thank you :thumbsup:
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Carnium
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:07 pm

lodilefty wrote:I found the colors. Tinkering now :blink:


Thanks Lodi.
Could you please merge my posts concerning 1812 scenario with already opened thread here. So we can have all in one :thumbsup:


[color="Blue"]Edit: Moved :D [/color]

[color="Red"]*** Thanks ****[/color] ;)

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Carnium
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Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:57 pm

Finished my game as the British and ... to my surprise I won even if my overall progress was FAR worse than in the stock scenario :confused:
My suggestion is that the VPs get a good look as now the British have an unfair advantage.Maybe give the US side more VPs from the start or credit them more by holding the key cities.
Why is the US side named "the rebels" in the news about new units ? A leftover from the American revolution scenarios ?
Also the first treaty of Paris event news is doubled - it fires on 2.6 and 3.6.

Saved game available if you want to take a look.

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TiFlo
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:46 am

Playing the full 1812 Grand Campaign, as the British, game patched to 1.04c plus the community patch.

Throughout the entire game, I got around 10 times that "Reinforcements form Europe arrive in Québec", with no one actually showing up there but the wind in the trees and the water in its riverbed. I stopped keeping track of it after a few occurences.
Two early saved games are attached.

Image


Image
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lodilefty
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Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:53 pm

TiFlo wrote:Playing the full 1812 Grand Campaign, as the British, game patched to 1.04c plus the community patch.

Throughout the entire game, I got around 10 times that "Reinforcements form Europe arrive in Québec", with no one actually showing up there but the wind in the trees and the water in its riverbed. I stopped keeping track of it after a few occurences.
Two early saved games are attached.

Image


Image


Actually, it is replacements arriving. The choice of words is a bit odd, but the event is working [check F2 in the ledger for Regulars replacements].

Saying that they arrive in Quebec is simply 'flavor'.
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