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Franciscus
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Windows 7 ???

Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:19 pm

As all of you certainly know by now, the release of Windows 7 is imminent. I never did the plunge to Vista, because never felt the necessity (and because I saw nothing but problems and bizarre things on a Vista-loaded laptop my wife bought last year :bonk :) . Yet, I was expecting better from Windows 7, after reading some reviews of the RC and the favorable experiences of some forumites (Nikel, Richfed), so I was indeed contemplating upgrading from XP to 7.
BUT... I just read, and it is official, that there will not be any way to upgrade from XP, the only option would be a clean install of 7 - meaning: formatting your system drive, installing 7, restoring your documents and... installing from scratch all your programs :wacko: :blink: .

Microsoft must be kidding. Of course we all know that an upgrade might go wrong, but denying this option is absurd and I fail to see a technical reason. After all, we all now, for example, how Apple works - just notice how seamless it was to upgrade our iPhones to 3.0 and compare it to this nonsense.

I for sure will not upgrade to Windows 7 unless I am forced to it (and this probably will only occur if some game that I really want would be only 7-compatible :wacko :) , and I am pretty sure most of the home users of XP will also refrain from it. Not to mention the millions of workplace computers that have XP running without problems.

Is this the beginning of the end for Microsoft ?

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Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:56 pm

Are you sure that there is not something called an "in place" upgrade where you can keep your programs?
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Franciscus
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:22 am

You just have to google it.

But, to help you, just check the official "upgrade" chart of Microsoft, discussed in this link:
http://mossblog.allthingsd.com/20090804/deciphering-windows-7-upgrades-the-official-chart/

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MarkShot
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:04 am

It's been known for a long time that there would not be any upgrade path for anything other than Vista.

The real question is if you are happy with XP, then why upgrade? Unless Win7 has some functionality not available in XP like Media Center for streaming video around your house.

XP will be supported until 2014. Additionally, it has a much smaller disk/memory footprint than Vista/Win7. So, you get to use your hardware for the things you bought it for as opposed to running your OS.

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Gray_Lensman
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:34 am

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WallysWorld
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:29 am

I'll be getting a new PC early next year as my current one is getting long in the tooth and I can't upgrade the processor anymore due to the Socket 939 factor. But I'm waiting for Windows 7 to come out and settle down with new drivers before I get that new PC.

There is a way that you store your data on your XP drive like onto an external drive and then copy that data into your Windows 7 PC. But you have to reinstall the programs with Windows 7. The data is just stuff like game mods, spreadsheets, email files and so on. But still I have a lot of stuff that I want to use with my new PC and will be doing this type of thing.

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Franciscus
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:37 am

Gray_Lensman wrote:When most applications (and for me PC games for the most part) start seriously "banging" against the 2 Gig "ram" memory limitation of XP, then and only then will I seriously consider upgrading to one of the newer Windows operating systems.

I agree. But we may get a perverse result, because if, as is probable, the PC player community will continue to be mainly XP-based, games will continue to have to be developed with these and other constraints imposed by a 10-year old OS and not really take advantage of many of the available hardware capabilities... :bonk:

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MrT
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:21 am

Gray_Lensman wrote:When most applications (and for me PC games for the most part) start seriously "banging" against the 2 Gig "ram" memory limitation of XP, then and only then will I seriously consider upgrading to one of the newer Windows operating systems.


get xp64? then you can play with the 128gb of ram.
That was the main reason I upgraded to xp64, no vista and I can keep my beloved XP.

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Franciscus
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:18 am

MrT wrote:get xp64? then you can play with the 128gb of ram.
That was the main reason I upgraded to xp64, no vista and I can keep my beloved XP.
.

Yes, but to games this is almost irrelevant. Precisely to keep compatibility with the vast majority of people with XP32, games (as most programs, for that matter) are made to use only 2 Gig tops. For sure, more RAM permits you to run several applications with ease on the background and probably is useful for some graphic-intensive professional applications. In my Desktop I have 4 Gig RAM (although my XP sees only 3,2 Gig :bonk :) , but my games use only 2 Gig; and they could use more, and I am not only referring to some fancy FPS - Even AGEOD's games could use more RAM (see WW1, for instance) but they are programmed to 2 Gig precisely due to plain old XP limitations.

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Rafiki
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:00 pm

Franciscus wrote:Is this the beginning of the end for Microsoft ?

Predictions of Microsoft's impending demise have been put forward on many occasions, and I have yet to see any of them holding true; while I don't believe this will be an exception, I guess we'll just have to wait and see ;)
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Pocus
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:44 pm

Gray_Lensman wrote:When most applications (and for me PC games for the most part) start seriously "banging" against the 2 Gig "ram" memory limitation of XP, then and only then will I seriously consider upgrading to one of the newer Windows operating systems.



3 gig Gray... My laptop has Xp and is using 3 gig (out of 4 installed, but I knew that before buying extra RAM)
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Franciscus
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:30 pm

Pocus wrote:3 gig Gray... My laptop has Xp and is using 3 gig (out of 4 installed, but I knew that before buying extra RAM)


Yes, XP "sees" up to 3,2 Gig or something. But, unless I am totally mistaken - which happens a lot, of course :D - each application per se is unable to use more than 2 Gig RAM

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Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:12 pm

Franciscus wrote:Yes, XP "sees" up to 3,2 Gig or something. But, unless I am totally mistaken - which happens a lot, of course :D - each application per se is unable to use more than 2 Gig RAM


Indeed, there is a way around that limitation if the application is build accordingly: Large Address Aware Flag

  • 32-bit applications built with the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE:YES linker flag on 32-bit Windows XP or Windows Server 2003 with the special /3gb boot option can address up to 3 GB. This constrains the kernel to only 1 GB which may cause some drivers and/or services to fail.
  • 32-bit applications built with the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE:YES linker flag on 32-bit versions of Windows Vista, and on 32-bit versions of Windows Server Code Name "Longhorn" operating systems, can address memory up to the number specified by the boot configuration data (BCD) element IncreaseUserVa. IncreaseUserVa can have a value ranging from 2048, the default, to 3072 (which matches the amount of memory configured by the /3gb boot option on Windows XP). The remainder of 4 GB is allocated to the kernel and can result in failing driver and service configurations.
  • ...
  • 32-bit applications on 64-bit platforms can address up to 2 GB, or up to 4 GB with the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE:YES linker flag.

It is also possible to set this flag directly in the .exe, e.g. with a hex-Editor. There might also be tools that will do this automatically.

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Pocus
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:55 pm

Per application yes, so with 3 gigs, you have XP using up some hundreds of megs, and are assured to have 2 gigs free for your game... well this is what I understood...
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Franciscus
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:01 pm

Pocus wrote:Per application yes, so with 3 gigs, you have XP using up some hundreds of megs, and are assured to have 2 gigs free for your game... well this is what I understood...


... :blink: Well, you should know, last time I heard, they said you had some experience in programming stuff... :D

(PS: Just kidding, I love you :coeurs :)

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MarkShot
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Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:44 pm

FYI

"LapLink Offers Solution for XP to Win7 Upgrades"

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352483,00.asp

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Syt
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Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:48 pm

My new machine has Vista64 Ultimate, and I have to say the jump from XP wasn't as bad as I feared. I especially love the sidebar ... useful little toy, but it's nice.

I'm very doubtful of the "in place upgrade", though, that promises to keep everything intact from your old OS.
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richfed
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Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:59 pm

All I can say, is that I have been using Windows 7 RC1 since May. Did an in-place upgrade from Vista that went flawlessly. Been loving my OS ever since. This IS a better OS than XP. When I use my son's XP machine over at his house, I really miss the 7 features, look and feel.

PS - No Ageod problems installing or running games!!
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Syt
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Sun Sep 06, 2009 3:54 pm

Interesting. Did you have to re-install a lot of software afterwards? I presume old licenses are not all recognized?
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richfed
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Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:02 pm

Syt, I had no problems with any software ... except for anti-virus software, but that is no longer an issue as most, if not all, vendors have released updates.
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Syt
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Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:59 pm

Thanks for the info. I guess I may get this around turn of ther year. :)
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Franciscus
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Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:50 pm

richfed wrote:... Did an in-place upgrade from Vista that went flawlessly....

Well, that option SHOULD be available to XP users. As it is, no way I am upgrading to Vista and then to 7, or shell out more money for a third party program :bonk: . I will wait for the next hard drive failure or burnt mobo and only then may I consider quitting my XP...

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