German navy strategy

[vonRocko]

With the game starting to stabilize,and rules becoming clearer, I can start pondering strategy!
Does anyone have ideas on the use of the German navy? Is it even worth leaving port?

Thanks

[calvinus]

IMHO, use the overseas fleets all around the world to make naval raids and try to concentrate all them into one single fleet. It will become a terrible threat for the Allies!

Use your Hoch See fleet very wisely instead. Loosing a major naval battle would cause a great loss of NW!

[Offworlder]

Has anyone ever seen the Russian fleet come out in the Baltic? I've sent Scheer to patrol but I've never caught anything.

On another note... when one builds a ship, is he building a squadron of 1 or a whole squadron? if its just 1, how to fill it up with other ships?

[WhoCares]

IMHO, use the overseas fleets all around the world to make naval raids and try to concentrate all them into one single fleet. It will become a terrible threat for the Allies!...

I did that, but Spees 'fleet' fo cruisers met a french fleet of battleships in the South Atlantic and got seriously damaged - I just expected to meet some raiders

[Syt]

Has anyone ever seen the Russian fleet come out in the Baltic? I've sent Scheer to patrol but I've never caught anything.

On another note... when one builds a ship, is he building a squadron of 1 or a whole squadron? if its just 1, how to fill it up with other ships?

Have you looked at the Russian fleet? There's a reason why historically the fleet never left the Finnish Gulf.

[Offworlder]

Yeah But I could always have some sport or no?

Has anyone ever tried to break out in the Atlantic?

BTW funny thing happened last time I used Spee to raid Singapore - I met the High Seas Fleet! Don't ask me how coz I retreated with all haste...

Another occasion I tried to ambush a transport fleet made up of light cruisers and destroyers with Spee's fleet. Never got close to them because of one rule or another. The nice thing is that the unit they were transporting (a corps from Madagascar) attacked Togo at half strength and was handily beaten

[calvinus]

For the Russian fleet, I remember there should be something in the AI MOD files that would allow to increment the naval aggressive attitude...

[calvinus]

Well, herewith some naval modding parameter taken from the RUS.ini file:

; The max number of naval offensives per turn [min 0, max 5]
MaxNavalOffensives=1

; The threshold (min) value (expressed in number of stacked naval squadrons) for a "minimal" naval garrisoning level [min 1, max 4]
MinimalNavalGarrisoningLevelThreshold=2

; The threshold (min) value (expressed in number of stacked naval squadrons) for a "medium" naval garrisoning level [min 1, max 8]
MediumNavalGarrisoningLevelThreshold=3

; The threshold (min) value (expressed in number of stacked naval squadrons) for a "maximum" naval garrisoning level [min 3, max 10]
MaximumNavalGarrisoningLevelThreshold=5

; The max number of open seas crossing for the planning of "amphibious landing" offensives [min 1, max 3]
MaxOpenSeasForAmphibiousOffensives=2

; The max number of open seas crossing for the planning of "expeditionary corps" offensives [min 1, max 3]
MaxOpenSeasForExpeditionaryCorpsOffensives=2

; The minimum sea zone importance value for a naval control mission being planned [min 0, max 5] (0 means no naval control mission is allowed)
NavalControlMissionsThreshold=3

; The array of favorite sea zone tags for naval control missions
BeginFavoriteNavalControlSeaTags
EndFavoriteNavalControlSeaTags

you see no seas are considered as "favorite sea zone tags for naval control missions"...

[Offworlder]

Incidentally I had a rather strange experience with Spee's squadron. I joined up all cruisers and waited for a suitable target. It came in the shape of the British African Squadron. I tried to engage but couldn't really commit my fleet (drag and drop didn't work) after the enemy admiral tried to escape. Is it normal? BTW the texts kept referring to subs but I thought that had been arranged

[Syt]

Incidentally I had a rather strange experience with Spee's squadron. I joined up all cruisers and waited for a suitable target. It came in the shape of the British African Squadron. I tried to engage but couldn't really commit my fleet (drag and drop didn't work) after the enemy admiral tried to escape. Is it normal? BTW the texts kept referring to subs but I thought that had been arranged

Look to the right of the binoculars in the battle screen - there's a little marker saying L, M, or S, denoting the distance of the engagement. Destroyers and such can only be used at short ranges. Often you will have the enemy get away if you can't open fire in round 1.

[Offworlder]

Well the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau are armoured cruisers with medium range, while the others are light cruisers with short range. They met a light cruiser squadron+attendant destroyers - all short ranged.

Shouldn't the first ACs at least engage on the first round?

[Syt]

Did the fight start at medium or long range? Did the enemy attempt to flee?

[Offworlder]

Did the fight start at medium or long range? Did the enemy attempt to flee?

He attempted to flee but wasn't able to. Actually I got pissed off when I thought that I had cornered an inferior fleet, only then not being able to 'slot' my ships (any ships) for the battle. After a few minutes trying everything I just hit engage and they ran like hell.

BTW how do you know if an action started at what range?

[Syt]

He attempted to flee but wasn't able to. Actually I got pissed off when I thought that I had cornered an inferior fleet, only then not being able to 'slot' my ships (any ships) for the battle. After a few minutes trying everything I just hit engage and they ran like hell.

BTW how do you know if an action started at what range?

As said above, take a look at the little brown chit to the right of the "binoculars".

For example here:

That battle is at Medium range in this particular round.

Spee's fleet was quite an annoying nuisance during the start of the war for the Allies. In fact, they often managed to evade contact and were only caught when the Brits brought in new battlecruisers after some embarrassing setbacks. Other small groups were equally elusive (think Goeben/Breslau, or the SMS Emden that was sunk due to a lucky coincidence). Smaller ships or squadrons are much harder to find and successfully engage than a fleet consisting of dozens of ships in the North Sea.

[Topeka]

Yeah But I could always have some sport or no?

Has anyone ever tried to break out in the Atlantic?

BTW funny thing happened last time I used Spee to raid Singapore - I met the High Seas Fleet! Don't ask me how coz I retreated with all haste...

Another occasion I tried to ambush a transport fleet made up of light cruisers and destroyers with Spee's fleet. Never got close to them because of one rule or another. The nice thing is that the unit they were transporting (a corps from Madagascar) attacked Togo at half strength and was handily beaten

I had a similar occurance last night. It's August 1914 and my Indian Ocean raiders were quite surprised to come across Jellicoe and the British Home Fleet. This must be a bug as I'm pretty sure the Home Fleet was at "Home" when the war started.

[calvinus]

Dear all, I'm 100% sure you found a point where the original boardgame rules generate a "hole"!
In fact, I believe naval rules of LGG have been modeled to simulate the large naval dues... not those ones you are simulating... grrr!
This is another point where I now have to do something unfamiliar with the original design!
I will do so: the combat range is forced in order to meet the engagement capabilities! No other solution indeed... Your opinion?

[Offworlder]

As said above, take a look at the little brown chit to the right of the "binoculars".

For example here:

That battle is at Medium range in this particular round.

Spee's fleet was quite an annoying nuisance during the start of the war for the Allies. In fact, they often managed to evade contact and were only caught when the Brits brought in new battlecruisers after some embarrassing setbacks. Other small groups were equally elusive (think Goeben/Breslau, or the SMS Emden that was sunk due to a lucky coincidence). Smaller ships or squadrons are much harder to find and successfully engage than a fleet consisting of dozens of ships in the North Sea.

Thanks for the info! Will pay more attention in the future. So does that mean that if in the scenario I described, the action started at long range (ie too long for both sides), I only had the chance of catching up with them on the second round?

Spee was a decent admiral who ran out of luck. He also commanded a crack squadron (the Far Eastern Squadron had won gunnery competitions before the war and were regarded as some of the smartest, best run ships in the German navy). In fact the British did not catch up with him - he went to his doom when he tried raiding the Falklands and found 2 BC which had coincidentally came into port for fuel.

Mind you its never easy to find an enemy at sea. Hehe, Jutland happened coz both fleets decided to investigate a neutral vessel. I wouldn't want to be the cap'n of that ship - he must have been the living version of: BC on all sides coming his way...

[calvinus]

Now I have a BIG doubt....

If I force the closest range at very naval battle start, the smaller squadrons cannot evade!

Don't you think it's better I leave things as they are???

[Tamas]

Now I have a BIG doubt....

If I force the closest range at very naval battle start, the smaller squadrons cannot evade!

Don't you think it's better I leave things as they are???

I think it is. I mean, what if a small squadron of short-range ships get caught by a much bigger squadron of short-range ships? They probably spot each other outside shooting distance. In this case, the small squadron should be given the chance to flee. So lets leave it as it is.

The more interesting problem is Britihs Home Fleet being able to reinforce battles on the Pacific. Is the reinforcement-check working correctly?

[calvinus]

The more interesting problem is Britihs Home Fleet being able to reinforce battles on the Pacific. Is the reinforcement-check working correctly?

Surely a matter of investigation!

[Syt]

So lets leave it as it is.

That'd be my vote, too. Catching small squadrons of nimble vessels should be hard.

[Offworlder]

Yeah but at least big ships should be able to take a potshot or two at them at long range.

Another funny encounter I just had:

Graf Spee and his merry band attacked the French Squadron of AC in the Atlantic. Guess who turned up? The High Seas Fleet that proceeded to batter the hapless French squadron. Then a large French Fleet turned up and I retreated immediately.

Don't know if it was really the French or the British fleet though coz I retreated since I was expecting a number of new ships to arrive and so I didn't want to endanger the fleet as it was.

Now to go a bit at a tangent.

I haven't really understood how shipbuilding works. Am I right in the following:

step 1: build squadron
step 2: any other ship that comes later (ie when the squadron is finished) is added in the squadron

right?

Some additional questions. Why do they have the 4 'clocks'? Do they indicate the length of time to commission the namesake of the squadron? How large can a squadron be?

And how are U boats used? I have no idea especially since I keep choosing the U Boat option rather frequently but without no effect. What is the use of the U Boats in port?

Tnx in advance