Gen. Monkey-Bear
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Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:53 am

Thanks for the hospitality guys. I appreciate all the welcomes :)

Sorry if I'm kinda brief right now. I'm just a little frusturated because I spent most of my day writing an essay and I didn't save it, so of course I lost the information. I'm trying to forget that, so I came here.

Anyway, I was wondering if you guys could give some advice to a newcomer like myself. I'm just coming out of a long and bloody campaign in Kentucky and northern tennessee. It's Nov 1861 and I'm playing as the Union. I have control of all of Kentucky finally except for one town on the Kentucky/Tennessee border. General Grant is in Bowling Green with about 7,000 troops and almost zero cohesion, although he is well supplied. Gen McDowell (one of his divisional commanders is Lyon) is in Ft Henry and Donnelson with about 30,000 troops. He has fairly good cohesion levels but has about three-fourths of his max supply and ammunitions.

Between Gen Grant and McDowell is Clarksville, which is in Union hands but is being besieged by Gen Polk. I have reason to suspect that Polk has about 18,000 men with fairly low cohesion and/or supply. He would've been stronger (before he had about 24,000 men), but Grant (who previously had almost 11,000 men) fought a battle with him. It was a tough fight that ended in a Union victory (Grant inflicted 6,000 casualties but took about 3,500). Anyway, both forces were greatly weakened, and Grant was forced to retreat to Bowling Green.

Nashville is nearby and I have reason to suspect that it is only garrisoned with about 5,000 men.

I suspect that Polk will either pursue Grant, and advance to try to capture Bowling Green (which is a confederate objective town); or maybe Polk will race back to defend Nashville to make sure that it does not get captured by McDowell.

So the question is do I use McDowell's force (in Henry and Donnelson) to capture Nashville before Polk can race back to defend it, or do I attack Polk (using McDowell) in order to stop him from pursuing Grant and capturing Bowling Green?

If you need me to clarify anything, I have no problem in doing so. Sometimes it is hard to understand my sensleess babble.

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Longshanks
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Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:29 pm

Union players are always faced with this dilemma: do I move quickly and risk my force, or do I build up only to face an entrenched CSA?

It's a style of play issue I suppose. In my PBEM games, I find that once you lose those federal troops, it takes a long time to reestablish your numbers.

Let me suggest something completely different. Take a look at Island #10. Have you scouted it yet with Foote? Taking that fort allows you to have river supply down the Mississippi all the way to Memphis. The CSA has no counter, other than to take Cairo, or field a large gunboat force. (If you take the fort and are worried about the AI taking it back, destroy it.)

My point is (and this is especially true in PBEM games), your opponent is looking at the places you are likely to attack. He will defend those places. If you bait and switch, your odds are increased. Against the AI, it doesn't much matter, you'll win eventually anyway as long as you don't wipe your army out repeatedly.

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Mickey3D
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Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:59 pm

Longshanks wrote: The CSA has no counter, other than to take Cairo, or field a large gunboat force.)


Don't forget that an entrenched artillery force can fire at passing ennemy ships (if "bombard" button is pressed and entrenchment level is high enough) and this should cut the supply too. So if Island 10 falls you can entrench a force lower on the Mississippi.

But for sure, the best for the CSA player is to take Paducah before the North can consolidate its hold on the city.

Gen. Monkey-Bear
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Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:10 am

Longshanks wrote:Union players are always faced with this dilemma: do I move quickly and risk my force, or do I build up only to face an entrenched CSA?

It's a style of play issue I suppose. In my PBEM games, I find that once you lose those federal troops, it takes a long time to reestablish your numbers.

Let me suggest something completely different. Take a look at Island #10. Have you scouted it yet with Foote? Taking that fort allows you to have river supply down the Mississippi all the way to Memphis. The CSA has no counter, other than to take Cairo, or field a large gunboat force. (If you take the fort and are worried about the AI taking it back, destroy it.)

My point is (and this is especially true in PBEM games), your opponent is looking at the places you are likely to attack. He will defend those places. If you bait and switch, your odds are increased. Against the AI, it doesn't much matter, you'll win eventually anyway as long as you don't wipe your army out repeatedly.


Well thanks for the advice. To answer your question, I actually haven't taken a look at Island #10. At one point I came up with a plan to seize it, but after siezing that one southern Missouri town (I don't remember the name) near Island #10, the plan had to be abandoned because there turned out to be a large enemy force nearby under Van Dorn and I wanted to spare my troops for the campaign in Kentucky. Since that time, Van Dorn has advanced to somewhere around Rolla.

I'll try to look into it as soon as possible, but with Van Dorn still in Missouri, and Polk sieging Clarksville, I prefer to end operations in Kentucky before going for Island #10. Do you suggest that I attack Polk directly or that I go straight for Nashville?

If you have other suggestions, please share.

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Longshanks
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Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:48 am

Sooner or later you need to take Island 10 in order to open traffic and supply to Memphis, a primary goal. Always better to take it on the cheap when you can. Nashville is a good target of course, so you'll have to consider your options. In my experience (which isn't a lot more than yours), the AI will give up on Nashville if you press hard on Memphis. Course, he may send the troops in Nashville to Cincinnati, but that's another story.

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Ol' Choctaw
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Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:03 am

Longshanks wrote:Course, he may send the troops in Nashville to Cincinnati, but that's another story.


With regard to that, make sure you send out some troops to control the regions around Louisville and Lexington.. The AI almost always tries to sneak up and attack in your rear.

If you see a region change the amount of control it is a sure indication they are up to something.

As difficult as it is, you need to keep some kind of reaction forces behind your fronts. Kentucky in particular can be a problem but all areas are subject to sneak attacks.

In the east CSA units, some pretty strong ones, will continue to spawn around Richmond and raiders show up around Winchester.

As for Island #10, the sooner the better. The CSA will use it as a staging ground for raids and assaults in both Missouri and Kentucky-Tennessee. It is an important source of supply to them and you need to close the rivers and cut their supplies. It also protects Cairo and reduces threats on St. Louis. Until then I have seen them use the river to go as far as Quincy, IL.

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Jim-NC
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Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:52 am

If you attack Polk, do not use the river crossing, cross 1 region away, and march to Clarksville. The casualties for a river crossing are terrible. You don't have Corps yet, so the stacks won't fight together.

I assume you have not scouted the enemy forces at/near Nashville. You will probably do the most good with McDowell attacking Polk. You can try for Nashville, but Polk will still be there out numbering Grant, and you won't know what your facing in Nashville. Polk will probably rest a turn, then attempt to smash Grant at Bowling Greene.

You can attempt to cut off Polk with your river navy while you march to Nashville (that way he doesn't come up behind you and smash you after you take the town).
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Gen. Monkey-Bear
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Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:09 am

Thanks again for the advice, guys. I will make sure to organize forces to protect my rear, and I'll do my best to campaign against Island #10 simultaneously.

As for Nashville, regarding what you said Jim-NC, I used only my detection values when I estimated that the force was around 5,000. So you're right, I haven't looked to closely into it, but I saw 6 units there (one was supply), I figured maybe 5 combat units with 1000 men = 5,000 men. It was a pretty crude estimate, but I figured there can't be too many more rebs around because the AI seems to be concentrating a lot in Missouri, so I was a little hopeful that they wouldn't have too many troops in Nashville. like I said, I estimated about 5,000 but who knows, maybe it's more like ten.

Let's say there's 10,000 troops in Nashville. Would it be wise to try and assault it with McDowell's 30,000 troops (assuming I can block Polk with my river navy) ?

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Longshanks
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Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:33 pm

BTW, you can beat the AI easily by "managing" his long raids in force. What Athena wants to do is go take a VP city like, say, Cincinnati. Then they'll sit on the depot all winter. So, gather troops around them and let them use up supplies. Once you get strength, you can take a shot or two at them. If played right, you'll eliminate every last one of those troops. This is a weakness of the AI that players can exploit. In my games, if I see the AI launching one of these, I'll take control of the CSA for one turn, and send the troops back to where they're really needed, in order to simulate PBEM play better.

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Jim-NC
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Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:25 am

Gen. Monkey-Bear wrote:Thanks again for the advice, guys. I will make sure to organize forces to protect my rear, and I'll do my best to campaign against Island #10 simultaneously.

As for Nashville, regarding what you said Jim-NC, I used only my detection values when I estimated that the force was around 5,000. So you're right, I haven't looked to closely into it, but I saw 6 units there (one was supply), I figured maybe 5 combat units with 1000 men = 5,000 men. It was a pretty crude estimate, but I figured there can't be too many more rebs around because the AI seems to be concentrating a lot in Missouri, so I was a little hopeful that they wouldn't have too many troops in Nashville. like I said, I estimated about 5,000 but who knows, maybe it's more like ten.

Let's say there's 10,000 troops in Nashville. Would it be wise to try and assault it with McDowell's 30,000 troops (assuming I can block Polk with my river navy) ?


3 to 1 odds. Those are on the good side (assuming that one of the units isn't a division). So yes, you will most likely win (nothing's guaranteed). Check the power rating (yours vs. theirs), which you should be able to see, if you know there are 6 units in Nashville to determine if you still have 3 to 1 odds. BTW, army HQs show up as a supply unit at long range. If Polk is in a Corps, you must assume there is an army somewhere close by (you can tell this - it will either say Polk's command or Polk's Corps).
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Gen. Monkey-Bear
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Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:02 am

Jim-NC wrote:3 to 1 odds. Those are on the good side (assuming that one of the units isn't a division). So yes, you will most likely win (nothing's guaranteed). Check the power rating (yours vs. theirs), which you should be able to see, if you know there are 6 units in Nashville to determine if you still have 3 to 1 odds. BTW, army HQs show up as a supply unit at long range. If Polk is in a Corps, you must assume there is an army somewhere close by (you can tell this - it will either say Polk's command or Polk's Corps).


Polk's force is not a corps. I don't think it is labeled as an army, either, but strangely enough it still contains an army HQ (I guess maybe the AI is waiting for a better leader to join his force). Either way, Polk's force is Independent and I don't think there's a HQ in Nashville.

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GraniteStater
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Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:40 pm

Couple of points:

* Always remember that "33565 men, 1160 horses, 125 canon (sic)" are flavor figures, i. e., window dressing. They are not entirely uninformative, but the PWR is determinative. PWR reflects Cohesion and ability to fight well and long. NM affects Cohesion and PWR.

* Cincinnati is not a VP city, i. e., an Objective. It is a Strategic City, though (Objectives are SCs, also). SCs are good to take because Loyalty checks are triggered whenever one changes hands. Frequently, SCs are Recruiting centers (Tents), and often are Depots (I'd have to check if every SC is a Depot).
[color="#AFEEEE"]"Liberty and Union, now and forever, one and inseparable!"[/color]
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[color="#FFA07A"]"C'mon, boys, we got the damn Yankees on the run!"[/color]
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Gen. Monkey-Bear
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Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:08 am

Well thanks for all the tips. With all this advice I was able to take Nashville using Grant's corps of McDowell's Army of the Tennessee. But I still have one more question.

The AI managed to get Bragg into Nashville before I took the city, so he took over command of the force previously under Polk. Bragg and Polk did a fair job defending Nashville from Grant and McDowell, but in the end I still won the Battle of Nashville, and the rebs were forced to retreat, taking twice as many casualties in the process.

The only problem is that now I have McDowell and Grant in Nashville at half strength, and Bragg near the Tennessee river is between Nashvill and Ft. Henry and Donnelson. I can't tell if he's gonna try and take Henry and donnelson or not, but if he does I plan to let him take it and then march Grant and McDowell into the area to besiege/engage him. I prefer that he gets besieged that way his whole force gets stuck in there and is neutralised, but I guess either way I still have to deal with his prescence in the tennesse/cumberland river area. So what do you think of the plan? Should I keep chasing Bragg?

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Ethan
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Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:09 am

Only as advice, I can tell you that if you use Grant as Corp commander under McDowell's Army you are lowering his command ratings (I refer to Grant). ;)
[color="Navy"][font="Georgia"]"Mi grandeza no reside en no haber caído nunca, sino en haberme levantado siempre". Napoleón Bonaparte.[/font][/color]

[color="Blue"]Same Land. Different Dreams. - Photobook[/color]

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jennison
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Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:01 pm

I have a problem as well with too many generals (CSA) and not sure what to do with them. I saw the post about using them to train units.. How does one go about doing this? Do Generals offer some sort of bonus when they are in a city with new units?

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Ethan
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Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:25 pm

Hi Jennison! :)

Generals with "Trainer Officer" ability will train up to two regiments of conscripts to regular soldier every turn. Just place these generals in command of the conscripts that you want to train.

CSA generals with this ability:

- Samuel Cooper

- Richard Taylor

Here you have the USA and CSA generals lists. ;)

Good luck and enjoy playing! :thumbsup:
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[The extension pdf has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

[The extension pdf has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

[color="Navy"][font="Georgia"]"Mi grandeza no reside en no haber caído nunca, sino en haberme levantado siempre". Napoleón Bonaparte.[/font][/color]



[color="Blue"]Same Land. Different Dreams. - Photobook[/color]



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jennison
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Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:30 pm

Great, thanks for the reply!

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Ethan
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Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:33 pm

You're welcome!
[color="Navy"][font="Georgia"]"Mi grandeza no reside en no haber caído nunca, sino en haberme levantado siempre". Napoleón Bonaparte.[/font][/color]



[color="Blue"]Same Land. Different Dreams. - Photobook[/color]



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Gen. Monkey-Bear
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Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:04 am

I've been wondering about that too. By conscripts, you mean militia and volunteers, right? and by regiments, are you refering to the unit elements?

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Ethan
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Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:36 am

Hi! :)

Volunteers are militia, but over time it may become conscripts. When you buy some units for reinforcements, infantry and cavalry units do not come already trained. In the details panel of the unit you will see: Infantry (conscripts) (Line Infantry). Once they are trained by an appropriate general (with "trainer officer" ability) these units are converted to line infantry: Infantry (Line Infantry). :thumbsup:

Here I show you some pictures.

Gen. Monkey-Bear wrote:by regiments, are you refering to the unit elements?


Yep.
Attachments
Line Infantry.jpg
Conscripts.jpg
[color="Navy"][font="Georgia"]"Mi grandeza no reside en no haber caído nunca, sino en haberme levantado siempre". Napoleón Bonaparte.[/font][/color]



[color="Blue"]Same Land. Different Dreams. - Photobook[/color]



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Gen. Monkey-Bear
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Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:46 am

Wow thanks a lot Ethan. That helps much. I wish I had asked sooner. I guess it's all part of the learning process.

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Ethan
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Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:08 am

You're welcome. ;)

As you play, you'll learn new things.

Greetings! :thumbsup:
[color="Navy"][font="Georgia"]"Mi grandeza no reside en no haber caído nunca, sino en haberme levantado siempre". Napoleón Bonaparte.[/font][/color]



[color="Blue"]Same Land. Different Dreams. - Photobook[/color]



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tagwyn
AGEod Guard of Honor
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Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:30 pm

Jackson is not in the West, Johnson is a good general, so is Bragg.t

Aurelin
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Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:56 am

No rule that says he has to stay there.

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