Amphibious landings

[Daxil]

Sorry about all the threads but I'm not finding them in search or documentation.

*With amphib landings, what sort of odds is one looking for?
*Is there a frontage issue?
*How much does a large fleet help or are they limited to 4 guns in support like on land?

[soloswolf]

I believe your whole fleet will bombard, the only determining factor should be ranges.

The frontage issues will come up depending on the terrain as per normal. Your largest obstacle will be assaulting forts directly.

As far as numbers... I would go with nothing less than 3 to 1 for an assured victory. Judge it case by case, but this is definitely one area where you don't want to leave things to chance. Don't mess around when storming forts. (Inspired advice, I know, but I think you get my drift.)

And mostly... Do you really need it? Can the position be turned by a less costly move?

[Jabberwock]

A truly large fleet will not inflict more than 25 hits on the defenders. However, those hits should go to artillery first, which is always helpful.

[Daxil]

A truly large fleet will not inflict more than 25 hits on the defenders. However, those hits should go to artillery first, which is always helpful.

It's also helpful to know that the attacker wont be attacking with his whole fleet once he lands.

[Jabberwock]

A fleet at about 750 strength can usually get pretty close to 25 hits and spread the damage they recieve back (up to 50 hits) adequately. So two or more fleets that size bombarding simultaneously are deadly.

[Daxil]

Is it up 50 hits per fort? I assume thats how you beat the big fleet stacks - multiple well-armed forts.

[Jabberwock]

Up to 50 points per bombarding stack. So if there are multiple shore batteries (in a fort or not), bad news for fleets.

[soloswolf]

Thanks for the details there Jab. All good things to know!

[Doomwalker]

Up to 50 points per bombarding stack. So if there are multiple shore batteries (in a fort or not), bad news for fleets.

OK, I think I am confusing myself here. So do I want 2 seperate stacks of troops on shore? Or, will a single stack bombarded by two seperate fleets deal up to 50 to each fleet?

[Rafiki]

Is it up 50 hits per fort? I assume thats how you beat the big fleet stacks - multiple well-armed forts.

Try sailing a large Union fleet into Charleston harbor (after Fort Sumner has fallen), and you'll see how this can work

(It's each bombarding stack that gets a "shot"; usually each fort will have one stack, so it's fairly equivalent for practical purposes)

[Jabberwock]

Each shore battery (or fort) stack gets a shot at each fleet stack and vice versa. If land and fleet stacks are all set to bombard, they each get two shots at each other. Seems to me that the odds (actual damage, not max damage) get skewed more towards the land force if the fleet bombards, than if they just sail in and let the shore batteries bombard them. Each shore battery can do max 50 damage per bombardment, each fleet max 25.

BTW - This is a very inefficient way to take out forts, at least until '63, when you can afford the big fleets. By that time I've usually either taken any forts I want with land forces; or gone around, taken whatever they were protecting, and let them starve.

[Daxil]

With the shore batteries can you only have up to two in a hex? One in a city, and one in the terrain around it? Or, can you take an army, divide it up and every stack gets a shot?

[Rafiki]

You can have as many stacks as you like, both on the inside and on the outside of structures, provided you have units for it

[Daxil]

Oh, snap.

[arsan]

But bear in mind that each stack with arty, enough trench level and bombard order will in fact get a shoot at the ships (good!) and also be fired in return (maybe not so good!)

[Doomwalker]

OK, thank you guys for the clarification. I think I have a grip on it now.

[Daxil]

Getting back to bombardment and naval stack size, how could the stack in the attached image survive the hits it did and still be operating? Not only that, it was hit for 60 the previous turn. Is it just hanging by a string here?

[Rafiki]

It's a large stack, and ironclads can take a faitr amount of damage. Besides, the stack may have been a good deal larger to begin with? Judging by the names, it seems quite a few ironclads have been built?

[Daxil]

This is from my pbem game. I guess I did see some movement in and out so it may have been two stacks. I didn't realize the named ships were ironclads either. I think maybe the first set of hits were against his first fleet trying to take out cannons and then the second set is against a second fleet. This guy's too smart! leure:

[Rafiki]

"Something" Gunboat Sq = gunboat squadrons. AFAIK, the ironclads are the only single-element (-boat) river units

[Jabberwock]

I would call that smarts, not smart. That fleet is definitely just hanging by a string, no matter how big it was to start. Looks like it was about strength 650 to start (8 ironclads, 8 gunboats, 8 transports). They are not doing any damage back to the shore batteries at this point. They take cohesion loss from bombardment, in addition to the damage you can see. They are probably under 150 strength right now.

60 damage - Looks like BombardMaxHits is not actually the maximum.

[Daxil]

60 damage - Looks like BombardMaxHits is not actually the maximum

Well,I have two stacks there - one inside, one outside - and I think you have to go through multiple river zones when you pass that locale, so that explains it I think (You're seeing both hits at once).

[Daxil]

i see them now.. smarts...