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michaelincol
- Corporal
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:02 pm
- Location: Colorado
"You have anyway already a good game with the current version which could "learn you the basis" to prepare you for the Gold version".
Good advice I followed coming from someone who has spent so much time working with the game for others. Thank you for the advice, and thank you for all your efforts. Just bought it, and am learning the basics as you say along with the new ACW II offering. Ready to order some nice fat books on the period...
Michael
Good advice I followed coming from someone who has spent so much time working with the game for others. Thank you for the advice, and thank you for all your efforts. Just bought it, and am learning the basics as you say along with the new ACW II offering. Ready to order some nice fat books on the period...
Michael
michaelincol wrote:"You have anyway already a good game with the current version which could "learn you the basis" to prepare you for the Gold version".
Good advice I followed coming from someone who has spent so much time working with the game for others. Thank you for the advice, and thank you for all your efforts. Just bought it, and am learning the basics as you say along with the new ACW II offering. Ready to order some nice fat books on the period...
Michael
Thank you
: that's the main way we gain enough NM to continue the struggle 
!REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD
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John Sedgwick
- Colonel
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
- Location: NL, Canada
Yes, JayR and czert2, a Gold edition and a new revolt in Russia are both expected within several months 
.
But i can only give a word about the Gold edition
: it is in the last stage and the list of changes would be so long that i still wonder who will read it if we write it 
.
.But i can only give a word about the Gold edition
: it is in the last stage and the list of changes would be so long that i still wonder who will read it if we write it .REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD
Philo32b wrote:I would love to read that.
What about reading database spreadsheets...
?I agree we anyway need at least a good summary. If Beta testers could help to update the wiki version of the manual after the last testing party, it would be the good way to do it
.REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD
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FleetingThought
- Private
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:08 pm
, you are welcomed.
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FleetingThought
- Private
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:08 pm
I am actively focused on Espana 1936, so I will be ready when you are.
Espana 1936 is an excellent, thorough design, and quite deep; I am surprised it hasn't achieved a wider audience yet. The tutorials are the best I've seen in an AGEOD game, the campaign is massive, the interface is quite intuitive, relatively speaking.
Espana 1936 is an excellent, thorough design, and quite deep; I am surprised it hasn't achieved a wider audience yet. The tutorials are the best I've seen in an AGEOD game, the campaign is massive, the interface is quite intuitive, relatively speaking.
Thanks, i'll PM both of you as soon as we are ready to Beta test.
@ FleetingThought : Espana 1936 is a game i'm waiting for years, but i don't have currently the time to explore and play it. Before i really should finish the RUS Gold
. So we really need feedbacks/comparisons from Espana 1936 to improve RUS with the newest ideas. If you Beta test, please have a look on the RUS Tutorials and feel free to bring any better pedagogical features/presentations.
@ FleetingThought : Espana 1936 is a game i'm waiting for years, but i don't have currently the time to explore and play it. Before i really should finish the RUS Gold
. So we really need feedbacks/comparisons from Espana 1936 to improve RUS with the newest ideas. If you Beta test, please have a look on the RUS Tutorials and feel free to bring any better pedagogical features/presentations.REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD
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Highlandcharge
- Posts: 705
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:44 am
Highlandcharge wrote:Any Idea when the gold version will be released?
I have just started a few pbem games, if it is soon I will hold off on the games and await its release
Thanks
As i said in an another thread :
andatiep wrote:It looks like it is a one or two months trip now, ...by foot.
Be patient... or be Beta tester
.
REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD
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The Lev
- Sergeant
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:15 pm
- Location: All over the place, Mostly Britian
And me, currently writing my Dissertation on the topic-hard not to want to play RUS while reading about Drozdovskiy and Co
Cheers to all those on the Dev team who've put in quite so much time into what is an excellent gaming experience, especially to someone reading a lot on the period
Hope Ukraine gets a mention, a civil war within a civil war was very complicated-Sure they'd never take Moscow, but neither would the Poles
A Ukraine scenario beginning 14.11.1918 with the anti-Hetmanate revolt would be a dream come true-but that's more a project aside, Ukrainian military history of the period has a lot written on it, but barely anything's been translated-Hell there are even claims that Drozdovskiy and even Denikin's father were ethnic Ukrainians-not sure what to make of that, doesn't change their contribution to the White movement
Anyhow, Ukraine aside-Best wishes for RUS Gold edition, if there's any way i can support it before the release i'll do my best
Cheers to all those on the Dev team who've put in quite so much time into what is an excellent gaming experience, especially to someone reading a lot on the period
Hope Ukraine gets a mention, a civil war within a civil war was very complicated-Sure they'd never take Moscow, but neither would the Poles
A Ukraine scenario beginning 14.11.1918 with the anti-Hetmanate revolt would be a dream come true-but that's more a project aside, Ukrainian military history of the period has a lot written on it, but barely anything's been translated-Hell there are even claims that Drozdovskiy and even Denikin's father were ethnic Ukrainians-not sure what to make of that, doesn't change their contribution to the White movement
Anyhow, Ukraine aside-Best wishes for RUS Gold edition, if there's any way i can support it before the release i'll do my best
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FleetingThought
- Private
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:08 pm
I don't have RUS yet -- was about to get it but then saw Espana 1936 and that a RUS Gold is on the way, so I picked up Espana 1936 instead.
But I will gladly provide any feedback on RUS Gold when it is time (whether beta or after release) with the perspective of what I think is working well in Espana 1936.
The biggest thing I'd say at the moment is that Espana 1936 tutorials take nothing for granted, including trivial things, like reminding you a few times to move the tutorial window out of the way to get to the game (I nearly went insane with one tutorial -- I forget which game -- where what it asked me to do looked impossible because it was under the tutorial window and therefore not clickable).
A couple of small, general things:
Spelling, grammar and punctuation counts. Make sure there is a final proof-read of the whole set of tutorials once done.
Make sure all references to objects and interface elements are crystal-clear. Too many times, as a newb, I've read, "click on the stack" or "drag it to territory X" without the faintest clue as to which stack or how I'm going to find the territory (out of hundreds) to drag to. Simply always refer to the explicit element by name and more importantly, location, with directions if necessary ("northeast"), to make sure there's not a moment of frustration in following orders. When I'm told "it's over there" with ambiguous reference, I feel like I'm dealing with my wife's answer when I ask where the backup toilet paper is: "in the closet." [which one? which shelf? OH! it's in the back of the closet we never use, buried under thirty other things!]
It remains quite ambiguous for a newb to understand exactly what you click on to Select a City, as an example. The little brown square? The label? The graphic of the city itself? Identifying the right clickspot is HUGE for all things where it is not obvious to a new player. Again, blindingly idiotic for anyone familiar with the system but a real barrier of entry to new players. This is particularly frustrating in a game that so wonderfully identifies virtually everything with thorough, detailed tooltips, it makes the player feel like an idiot for not being able to figure it out (yes, I'm an idiot, it's okay).
Example of rare Espana 1936 tutorial fail: I've been taught how to create a Division, using the Division Special Orders button. Then I move to how to create an Army. I'm still thinking, and the tutorial implies, it's just like creating a Division. The tutorial steps me thru why I select the three-star general to head the Army (with an excursion into why seniority matters, which wasn't relevant to the main topic but should be a separate note or hint....), and then it fails to tell me explicitly to select the Form Army Special Orders button. So I click on the Form Division button, and the next step in the tutorial, with the Army Outliner to the upper right on the screen, doesn't happen. It must be broken! No, it's just I wasn't referred to the Form Army button, simple as that. The nth time through the tutorial I finally figured that out.....
This may sound like too much hand-holding, but I think it's absolutely critical for games as complex as AGEOD, and may make the difference between sales and no sales: make very clear to the player what the typical sequence of activities is for a cycle of a turn. Break it down into very clear categories. First I check the ledger, then I scroll thru all my active units using the Next Stack arrows, making choices for all of them, then I go to Production, then Diplomacy, etc. etc. (this isn't my recommended sequence, just an example). While it's quite true that different players will choose different sequences, and the games are designed well enough that there doesn't have to be a hard-and-fast stepping through a linear this-then-that process, and that not all the steps will be used every time, it will help a new player massively to have an excellent example in a tutorial of what the typical logic is. Yes, this is inherent in the overall flow of the interface design. Yes, it can be implied by the sequence of Tutorials 1-2-3-etc. But it should be made absolutely explicit. This will give new players a feeling of competence like nothing else, and it's that feeling that excites and expands an audience for your game.
The tutorials are at their best when they don't try to pack too much into one window at a time; all too often, I am asked to think about too many things at once (I admit I am a simple yet patient mind). Chunk information into bite-size pieces, better more, shorter tutorials than ones with endless things to do per step. Don't start telling me how the save system works on the same page you're telling me about the production system -- it distracts me, leaves me suddenly not thinking about the production system, wondering why the save system is NOW being mentioned rather than elsewhere, and then I forget everything and go have a beer and blame the game for not making any sense. Different topic, different page, or tutorial.
Tutorials are _extremely_ difficult to do well; how much focus to give to what to provide consistent pedagogy is a very difficult balancing act. And making the steps logical is also hard. I have no problem going through a tutorial a few times, to practice the concepts presented. It is better when those concepts are clearly defined per tutorial, and per step -- each one is a clear theme, in other words.
There's a tendency with complex wargames to assume the player is smart, and will "figure it out." While this is true, creating unnecessary barriers to entry for such a small audience is never going to be a good thing. If walking the player through everything carefully via tutorials feels like it will be "giving away the game too much," well then that's an implication there needs to be more thought to the game itself, fortunately not at all an issue for any AGEOD game I've ever encountered.
Well, that's all I'll say for now.
But I will gladly provide any feedback on RUS Gold when it is time (whether beta or after release) with the perspective of what I think is working well in Espana 1936.
The biggest thing I'd say at the moment is that Espana 1936 tutorials take nothing for granted, including trivial things, like reminding you a few times to move the tutorial window out of the way to get to the game (I nearly went insane with one tutorial -- I forget which game -- where what it asked me to do looked impossible because it was under the tutorial window and therefore not clickable).
A couple of small, general things:
Spelling, grammar and punctuation counts. Make sure there is a final proof-read of the whole set of tutorials once done.
Make sure all references to objects and interface elements are crystal-clear. Too many times, as a newb, I've read, "click on the stack" or "drag it to territory X" without the faintest clue as to which stack or how I'm going to find the territory (out of hundreds) to drag to. Simply always refer to the explicit element by name and more importantly, location, with directions if necessary ("northeast"), to make sure there's not a moment of frustration in following orders. When I'm told "it's over there" with ambiguous reference, I feel like I'm dealing with my wife's answer when I ask where the backup toilet paper is: "in the closet." [which one? which shelf? OH! it's in the back of the closet we never use, buried under thirty other things!]
It remains quite ambiguous for a newb to understand exactly what you click on to Select a City, as an example. The little brown square? The label? The graphic of the city itself? Identifying the right clickspot is HUGE for all things where it is not obvious to a new player. Again, blindingly idiotic for anyone familiar with the system but a real barrier of entry to new players. This is particularly frustrating in a game that so wonderfully identifies virtually everything with thorough, detailed tooltips, it makes the player feel like an idiot for not being able to figure it out (yes, I'm an idiot, it's okay).
Example of rare Espana 1936 tutorial fail: I've been taught how to create a Division, using the Division Special Orders button. Then I move to how to create an Army. I'm still thinking, and the tutorial implies, it's just like creating a Division. The tutorial steps me thru why I select the three-star general to head the Army (with an excursion into why seniority matters, which wasn't relevant to the main topic but should be a separate note or hint....), and then it fails to tell me explicitly to select the Form Army Special Orders button. So I click on the Form Division button, and the next step in the tutorial, with the Army Outliner to the upper right on the screen, doesn't happen. It must be broken! No, it's just I wasn't referred to the Form Army button, simple as that. The nth time through the tutorial I finally figured that out.....
This may sound like too much hand-holding, but I think it's absolutely critical for games as complex as AGEOD, and may make the difference between sales and no sales: make very clear to the player what the typical sequence of activities is for a cycle of a turn. Break it down into very clear categories. First I check the ledger, then I scroll thru all my active units using the Next Stack arrows, making choices for all of them, then I go to Production, then Diplomacy, etc. etc. (this isn't my recommended sequence, just an example). While it's quite true that different players will choose different sequences, and the games are designed well enough that there doesn't have to be a hard-and-fast stepping through a linear this-then-that process, and that not all the steps will be used every time, it will help a new player massively to have an excellent example in a tutorial of what the typical logic is. Yes, this is inherent in the overall flow of the interface design. Yes, it can be implied by the sequence of Tutorials 1-2-3-etc. But it should be made absolutely explicit. This will give new players a feeling of competence like nothing else, and it's that feeling that excites and expands an audience for your game.
The tutorials are at their best when they don't try to pack too much into one window at a time; all too often, I am asked to think about too many things at once (I admit I am a simple yet patient mind). Chunk information into bite-size pieces, better more, shorter tutorials than ones with endless things to do per step. Don't start telling me how the save system works on the same page you're telling me about the production system -- it distracts me, leaves me suddenly not thinking about the production system, wondering why the save system is NOW being mentioned rather than elsewhere, and then I forget everything and go have a beer and blame the game for not making any sense. Different topic, different page, or tutorial.
Tutorials are _extremely_ difficult to do well; how much focus to give to what to provide consistent pedagogy is a very difficult balancing act. And making the steps logical is also hard. I have no problem going through a tutorial a few times, to practice the concepts presented. It is better when those concepts are clearly defined per tutorial, and per step -- each one is a clear theme, in other words.
There's a tendency with complex wargames to assume the player is smart, and will "figure it out." While this is true, creating unnecessary barriers to entry for such a small audience is never going to be a good thing. If walking the player through everything carefully via tutorials feels like it will be "giving away the game too much," well then that's an implication there needs to be more thought to the game itself, fortunately not at all an issue for any AGEOD game I've ever encountered.
Well, that's all I'll say for now.
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FleetingThought
- Private
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:08 pm
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John Sedgwick
- Colonel
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
- Location: NL, Canada
I'm dreaming of a Red Christmas,
Like comrade Lenin had in mind.
Where the treetops glisten,
And workers listen
To hear his Bolshevik design.
I'm dreaming of a Red Christmas,
With all this land redistributed,
May you have much peace, land, and bread!
And may all your Christmases be Red.
I'm dreaming of a Red Christmas,
With every slogan that I've read.
Well it's better than winding up dead,
So may all your Christmases be Red.
Like comrade Lenin had in mind.
Where the treetops glisten,
And workers listen
To hear his Bolshevik design.
I'm dreaming of a Red Christmas,
With all this land redistributed,
May you have much peace, land, and bread!
And may all your Christmases be Red.
I'm dreaming of a Red Christmas,
With every slogan that I've read.
Well it's better than winding up dead,
So may all your Christmases be Red.
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."
The Lev wrote:Anyhow, Ukraine aside-Best wishes for RUS Gold edition, if there's any way i can support it before the release i'll do my best
Ukraine inside-Best wishes, for the Red christmas called by John Sedgwick (i always knew that communism was a religion
) i wish that one day some Ukrainian/Russian speakers could translate subtitles in French (or at least in English :neener for this TV series : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Lives_of_Nestor_Makhno
[url]https://www.google.fr/search?q=Les+neuf+vies+de+Nestor+Makhno&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:fr
fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs[/url]I know anyway that the Cheka should come for me about the delays. The question is when. Hopefully after the end of the Game of throne. But if no god, who knows
?REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD
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Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne
- General of the Army
- Posts: 639
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:46 pm
- Location: Kentucky
I have a request. Can you add about 5-10 generals to the Reds in the Drang scenario. There aren't enough generals for all the units to start with. Within a year, I've already lost 8 generals (4 in 0 death battles) and there isn't any way to get new generals in that scenario. You could add in some of the red generals from other scenarios (General Yakir is noticeably missing in that scenario anyway) or just make them generic. You could also unlock a few of the permanently locked generals like Kirov, Zinoviev, or Lebedev.
A few officers I saw that could be added to the scenario (and possibly other scenarios).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Primakov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitovt_Putna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastas_Mikoyan
Anyway, I'm looking forward to some new RUS.
A few officers I saw that could be added to the scenario (and possibly other scenarios).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Primakov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitovt_Putna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastas_Mikoyan
Anyway, I'm looking forward to some new RUS.
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