Diplomacy Mess - Help!

[Gen. Monkey-Bear]

It looks like I got poor little Belgium into a fine mess.



I tried to improve my relationship with France by offering them Local Support. But now I have a Casus Belli against Prussia, and the Prussians are at war with the French! I have a three turn Casus Belli. Do I lose Prestige if I don't declare war?

The message box says I lost prestige.



What the heck did I do?

and what are these?

[loki100]

the cards set out below are the iteration of the crisis between France and Prussia, in effect depending on how aggressive they are being to each other will determine how likely they are that the thing escalates into war.

as to what to do - make a judgement if you + France are strong enough to at least get a stalemate, I'd say opt into the war. If you think France is going to get hammered, accept the prestige hit and sit it out. Remember that in PoN, you have to lose a war exceptionally badly for much to happen at the end - odds on even if you lose you'll get away with paying reparations etc.

depends really how you are doing in the prestige chase - whether protecting your current position is that important to you?

[Kensai]

Since v1.03c or so, local support will give a penalty if you don't actually support the recipient in war. I believe Pocus should return the probability of such a penalty that to a percentage according to the relations with the recipient nation. So if relations between France and Belgium were 65 before this incident, the probability for a penalty for not DOWing should be more or less 65%. Less better relations should give less obligation to commit.

This was the way it was before that change, I think. Pocus can reverse it. Local support is far too strong now.

[Sir Garnet]

Yes, you lose prestige because your diplomatic support failed to deter Prussian war on France. You also lose 10% prestige if you don't promptly exercise the CB and declare war on Prussia in support of France (just as if you allied with France). If you have a great deal of prestige, war may be preferable to the prestige blow, but Belgium's prestige is probably not very high.

Depending on the strength of the Belgian army, it might make a significant difference if fighting with the French, but you may well prefer to have them dig in on defense. Being conveniently located between France and Prussia, however, avoiding war may be preferable, and Belgium is even more a barrier to a flanking move if it remains out of the war.

There is no penalty for agreeing on a white peace with Prussia (i.e., status quo ante bellum restored).

Those cards are programmed by each side and then played out to a result with some effects determined based on percentage probabilities. If a war card is played and intensity exceeds 100, there is a declaration of war.

[Gen. Monkey-Bear]

This is my first Grand Campaign, so I don't really know what it's like to be in a war in this game. My only field army is a little over 900 power, and I'm afraid that Luxembourg will be occuppied.

My prestige is only in the 600s. I guess the best option is to stay out of war, or at least wait a couple of turns before I do anything. My only strong point really is my economy and population satisfaction, and I don't want either of these things to be ruined by war. Too bad though, I suppose this will probably anger the French. I really wanted them to like me so that they could protect me in case Prussia should ever get aggressive. I didn't imagine I might need to help them. I thought if someday they went to war I might be ready, but I guess I'm too weak to really be of much use anytime soon.

Is it possible for me to mediate the crisis? I don't really understand how diplomacy works in this game, but I thought I remember reading this as an option somewhere.

[Gen. Monkey-Bear]

I still want to try and help the French somehow, though. Am I allowed to propose a passage right with them, or a supply right to help them fight Prussia?

[loki100]

unfortunately you can't mediate - it would be great is a crisis was spread over 2-3 turns and allow others to get involved.

do you have the card to mobilise your reserves - that will help you a lot.

you can give the French transit and supply rights (I think they cannot refuse those two)

from what you've said, you prob are best to sit out - concentrate on making up with the French as fast as you can.

my AAR over on the Paradox forum has a sequence of posts about a war between Italy and the Ottomans - it might give you some ideas of how it plays out. Battles in PoN tend to be bloody but not decisive.

must say I am jealous, for various reasons in my game a war between France and Prussia that I could join in would be wonderful, esp if it ended with Prussia properly battered

[Egg Bub]

Battles in PoN tend to be bloody but not decisive.

I must say, I noticed that battles in your AAR were extremely bloody. Do you use assault posture or something?

[loki100]

I must say, I noticed that battles in your AAR were extremely bloody. Do you use assault posture or something?

I think that is a combination. This does seem to be a very bloody variant of the AGE games, I guess that is right. Mid-19C you still have armies in pretty uniforms in fairly close formations often looking to fight on open terrian but with early rifles, some primitive machine guns and artillery that is getting more deadly.

add to that, from a fair bit of experience with RoP I do use that 'red' commitment level (attack and defend) a lot, as I find it means the difference from holding the province to being bounced, but there is of course a cost, especially if you are on the 'losing' side.