How much taxation, tariffs, etc. is too much?

[Belisarius7]

Hello forum members, I just started playing this game. After reading the manual I started up a US game. I've tried twice to start a game and each time I'm faced with dwindling state funds with an the inability to break even without max taxation and a 50% tariff.

I read another thread basically stating that the best way to get state funds was through taxation or tariffs. Will such high levels of tax/tariff make my people angry? How long does that take?

I'm also not entirely sure where these costs are coming from. My colonial expenses look to only be roughly 6-8 state funds a turn.

Is it the military units? Should I disband some of the militia?

I've pretty much stayed within the 30 to 50 turn range on either game I've played.

[Sir Garnet]

Make sure you get the revised 1.02 manual and look at the Ministry of Commerce (F4 screen) discussion. In the left column there are tooltips telling you where money comes from and where it goes. Military maintenance you can't avoid. If you are doing accelerated research at f50 per technology you probably want to stop it to save money. And don't use any decisions that eat up state funds. Tariffs and low taxes should be enough to pay for military maintenance. The USA also gets a lot of gold mines. That gold can be converted into state funds using one of the top left buttons on the F4 screen. Too much and you get some inflation, but it is one way other than taxes to change Private Capital into State Funds. Tariffs don't make your people angry, but they do annoy other countries. Maritime tax based on trade is a small but good source - too much tax there and it does affect your competitiveness in trading.

[Vezina]

1. Gold/Gem mines. If that's not an option, get some off the world market. However, Sierra Nevada in California should have a massive amount of gold shortly into the game.

2. Sell more stuff to your population. It's not about having more exports than imports in this game. You need to BUY everything your population will buy. You'll break even from reselling it and then gain state funds in taxation (corporate/excise taxes). Also, when you get the chance, put trade fleets in the biggest MTB's. You get maritime tax for the amount of trade done there, and I believe it's based on your commerce value present as well.

3. Build factories that are vastly profitable. Luxury goods and Manufactured goods will almost always sell and will count towards that maritime tax.

Edit: I realized after writing this that you were asking how much is too high. Sorry. It's not about having high tax rates, it's about the volume of stuff that you tax. The census and corporate taxes are the ones you need to watch the most. You'll almost always take contentment hits from census, but the higher it is, the more you take. I prefer to keep it at the half-mark or less, and only move it up as needed. Same with the corporate tax - this one is a little easier to mess around with, but it still tends to make people mad. I don't feel like tariffs are a good way to go - you want to find the point that it's giving you the most internal consumption that you can get (on the f4 screen - check the demand numbers), especially as the US since your demand will be low due to a low population. Also, generally, you want to aim for a contentment raise of AT LEAST 0.40% a turn. That should shield you from too much contentment loss.

[Belisarius7]

Thanks for the replies.

The economics in this game are pretty deep. Just when I think I get it, there is another thing that comes up. I think I understand industry now, but I'm still a bit lost when it comes to what actually happens to my goods.

Does the computer handle actual selling my goods to both my internal and the international market?

How can I see what is in demand globally or see what my own internal market needs?

@Vezina - As the US, it seems that I'm producing most everything my population could need. Except for a few things, like dyes and tropical fruit, I appear to have quite a surplus building up. Am I making to much stuff for my population or the international market to buy? Not enough demand on the global market?

How do I "talk" to other countries about or in any other way promote selling my excess goods?

Edit: I found the trade box, so now I know how to put stuff up for sale. I'm still wondering how stuff will get bought. Will only get bought if the other countries' government buy it for their internal markets (population, factories)? What about minor nations? How can I ensure I get them to buy? Since I have a large stockpile of goods, is there any way for me to offer a lower price than the international price to increase competitiveness?

[Metalist]

How can I see what is in demand globally or see what my own internal market needs?

Hello Belisarius7. I think i can answer this question, but only for internal market needs. At F4 screen, you can see "Construction and Various" section. When you hover your mouse one of goods you will see "National Market Sales". This is the number of good that is bought by your people. Below that, you can see "40% of this type of good assigned to your markets" line. You can increase this ratio with left click, or decrease with right click. If national market sales do not increase eventhough you increase the ratio, that means your population already have enough amount of that good. This may help you about knowing what your internal market needs.

[Sir Garnet]

The USA is a major power and its merchant ships in maritime trade boxes can therefore sell as well as buy with the local countries (minor country merchants can only buy). The USA will eventually want merchants in most or all MTBs.

The 1.02 manual also discusses the virtues of acting as a trading hub and middleman to stimulate the world economy (as Britain did historically) so other countries develop as suppliers and customers. Or you can try to be as autarkic as possible as a weaker world economy means weaker rivals.

[Jim-NC]

How international trade works (in a nutshell):

1. Place things for sale from your capital region (using the T key with the mouse over Washington). You must decide how much of each good to sell (if any).
2. Wait 1 turn (this is so other countries can see the items you are trying to sell).
3. Next turn (2 after putting goods up for sale), check the balances screen (B key). This will allow you to look at each commodity and determine how much of each you are selling, and how much demand is against that good. When you hover over steel for example, it will state (paraphrasing here), country x is selling 10 steel, demand of 5. This means that the country is attempting to sell 10 steel units, but only 5 are being bought by other countries.
4. Keep selling for a long time. Not every country "sees" what you are buying, and sometimes they switch buyers (due to your relations, or lack of shipping, or for other reasons).

A few notes:
1. As a major, coutnries can buy and sell to you if you have a fleet in the appropriate MTB near their country.
2. Build merchant ships, lots of them, and spread out to most if not all of the MTBs of the world, focusing extra ships in the areas you most want to buy from.
3. Try to build high net value items. For example after the coal crunch, coal become soooooo plentiful it's ridiculous. Steel is also usually being oversold as well. Luxuries are always in demand, as is gold. As for the other things, you must decide what factories to build, and where.

As to the expenses, you can see (a little) where your state funds are going. In the F4 screen it lists various inflows and outflows of money/goods. The biggest unknown drain to state funds is ship building. It takes 16ish state funds to create 3-4 prestige points. Most people don't know that. You can use the F11 screen to determine which factories are using state funds (it has filters to show). Also on the F4 screen, lower down it shows where your money is going (-50 for research, -10 for replacements, -16 for regional decisions, etc). Pay attention to that.

Keep an eye on contentment for your tax rate. Use the F6 screen for that. One of the columns is contentment, sort by that and look at which areas have the worst contentment. Work on those (Police units are a good start). Space out your contentment decisions (some of them don't reset, so save for a special occasion).

[Sir Garnet]

The biggest unknown drain to state funds is ship building. It takes 16ish state funds to create 3-4 prestige points. Most people don't know that.

I did not know that.


Good practical post!

[H Gilmer3]

One thing to help contentment are the "decisions" you can take in the F1 screen and the F6 screen. Mouse over them and if they say it will help contentment, you can use these to help your contentment. I have used these some like the Plebiscite decision and the No Child Labor decision to help my contentment as Prussia. This more than offsets the loss of contentment I have had.