Russia in PoN

[yellow ribbon]

"That said, it might be reasonable if the event fires only if Russian-American relations are at a certain point diplomatically but the likelihood of another party getting a shot at buying Alaska is negligible."


of course we are talking about what could be there, not more.

I already dream of AGEOD stopping patch support for PON with an "official patch no. 1.15 " and then saying time for PON II.
But i acknowledge, that any mods will be faster and more certain, given the stable basis we got with 1.02.

however, what you said that is my point. the event can simply be extended it is about to fire anyway, but whats happened before....
having a floating date when Alaska would be sold depending on Russia financial reserves in the 1860s, or the need to invest in the negotiation (as they did historically...)

since there is a group discussing/implementing more events, and they do read here and at Paradox, it is always worth to discuss in public the history and alternatives.
or we would need the "good books about this era"-thread back

[Jamitar]

What about if as GB you dont participate in crimean war? no one seems to realise this possibility. I got casus belli but I let it pass.
it should be available to GB if they are able to get diplomatic relations back up quick enough. otherwise its no fun its like reading a history book

[Czert]

What kind of "more" would you have liked? Options and events allow a lot of things, but this has to remain realistic...the Russians would probably have had themselves shot in the feet rather than selling to GB who had just beaten them up in the Crimean War... they were close and friendly with the USA an hated the Brits... France and Austria, as well as Turks, came close seconds in the "hate" level of the Czar...

So then, who else could have been interested in that piece of rock and ice?

Is here option to not sell at all ? If not, plese add it, I invested a lot in alaska and dont want to lose my investment.

[Schwarzer Herzog]

Is here option to not sell at all ? If not, plese add it, I invested a lot in alaska and dont want to lose my investment.

I am in the same situation Czert, I've built a good war fleet in North Pacific, I was preparing an invasion of Japan, some investments in Alaska, immigration, and my lovely farm of fish and then Alaska is gone and I can't do anything

What kind of "more" would you have liked?

Some whatif's
- Russians can sell or not, if not, it starts in some years a revolt of American traders which colonize the region, something like Texas but in NorthWest.
- US can buy or not, discussions in the American Congress,
- Casus belli, or a crisis, from GB against US and/or Russia if US buys Alaska.

Gold was discover in Klondike (Alaska) in 1896, this is a good reason to save the region, yes you can say that the people still don't know before, but gold is appearing in the western regions of North after 1865 "near" Alaska...

[beuckelssen]

I´m agree with Schwarzer Herzog and Czert, at least the russian player has to be the option to choose between sell Alaska or not.

[pesec]

I agree too.

It is ridiculous to be able to control when peace is signed, what factory to build, what division goes where, but not to be able to control decision to sell Alaska. If one is playing Russia that won Crimean War with flying colours and has a good economy, selling Alaska makes no sense. Keeping it makes sense from nationalistic reasons, which is more than enough justification for monarch to refuse sale.

If you want things to go historically, make AI accept the sale 100% of the time. Players can go as historical as they want with options available.

[Czert]

Have one "minor" problem - I have 1858 and option to press chinto to cede lands - vladivistok - appeared avaivable to me, and i chose to press china, event fired, and here comes 2 main problems.
1.it writes china cedes - and first text is opt_rus_augunthreaty_1858_opt1 (in box).
2. with red china cedes - here is only evt_txt_rus_auiguntreaty_a_china cedes
3. despite secing I have no teritoris gained
4. have short term casus eli against china.

[Czert]

No one can help me with this ?

[nemethand]

No one can help me with this ?

We are just approaching 1858 in an MP game, will have to see what comes up. Other than that, sorry, no idea.

+1 to those who wish to be able to choose between selling and keeping Alaska.

[Schwarzer Herzog]

No one can help me with this ?

I choosed the preasure and I become the East Coast (Vladivostok) without wars but I don't know which possible results are there and its probabilities.
The messages opt and evt are an empty message for this event result or without translate to your language.

[Czert]

I choosed the preasure and I become the East Coast (Vladivostok) without wars but I don't know which possible results are there and its probabilities.
The messages opt and evt are an empty message for this event result or without translate to your language.

Since I use english (default) langue then I expect some text here, not only link to file.
Mayby my event files aree messed/some missing, but how to repair it ? Complate reinstall + latest patch 1.02 didnt fixed it.

[yellow ribbon]

hello czert,

its just an educated guess,
but most possibly this is just another "didnt had the money, thus didnt finish it" matter.

You said you play Russia, look for the events folder on the hard disk drive, look for the particular folder/file for russian events. you can usually open the file with any texteditor program

with a simple text editor you can check whether there is any text or just the placeholder for the event, as you saw it.

if you dare it, make a copy of the file, place it elsewhere and change the original file at will.

[color="Red"]NEVER EVER [/color]change the original csv-file for it contains the original links and you could really mess it up there.

[Czert]

encountered very nice bug with russia - in 1861 (i think it is that year) - I got czars reform which abolish selfdorm and played that decision in same turn to cancel it, next turn it writen that event worked and serfs was converted to peasants....only to find that I still have serviles and they didnt event convert to peasants (or others) slowly - thier numbers are still same for very long time.
And where to find events description ? I found rus events under vgn/data - but it looks as only file which descibes effects of that event, but not "txt filler".

[nemethand]

Have one "minor" problem - I have 1858 and option to press chinto to cede lands - vladivistok - appeared avaivable to me, and i chose to press china, event fired, and here comes 2 main problems.
1.it writes china cedes - and first text is opt_rus_augunthreaty_1858_opt1 (in box).
2. with red china cedes - here is only evt_txt_rus_auiguntreaty_a_china cedes
3. despite secing I have no teritoris gained
4. have short term casus eli against china.

Follow up on this:

The same happened in our game.

1) China ceded - no explanation, only reference to the txt file
2) same
3) However, I got the 4 territories, inlc. Haseinwai (which holds Valdivostok, I think) - which bolstered my national morale, as it is an objective city
4) China got a short term CB agianst Russia.

Now, I have the next choice - Treaty of Peking.

[Kensai]

High national morale is great for some economic sunrise events. Good!

[deoved]

encountered very nice bug with russia - in 1861 (i think it is that year) - I got czars reform which abolish selfdorm and played that decision in same turn to cancel it, next turn it writen that event worked and serfs was converted to peasants....only to find that I still have serviles and they didnt event convert to peasants (or others) slowly - thier numbers are still same for very long time.
And where to find events description ? I found rus events under vgn/data - but it looks as only file which descibes effects of that event, but not "txt filler".

I take few russian privinces as japan. Full of russian serfs and japan cannot convert them also. Discrimination?

[vaalen]

encountered very nice bug with russia - in 1861 (i think it is that year) - I got czars reform which abolish selfdorm and played that decision in same turn to cancel it, next turn it writen that event worked and serfs was converted to peasants....only to find that I still have serviles and they didnt event convert to peasants (or others) slowly - thier numbers are still same for very long time.
And where to find events description ? I found rus events under vgn/data - but it looks as only file which descibes effects of that event, but not "txt filler".

I had the same event fire in 1861, but I still have the same percentage of serfs, in 1865. Seems like a bug, but if all the serfs converted to peasants, how could their increased demands for food and goods be met? It is a challenge to meet the demands of the thirty percent of the population that are not serfs as it is.

[vaalen]

Follow up on this:

The same happened in our game.

1) China ceded - no explanation, only reference to the txt file
2) same
3) However, I got the 4 territories, inlc. Haseinwai (which holds Valdivostok, I think) - which bolstered my national morale, as it is an objective city
4) China got a short term CB agianst Russia.

Now, I have the next choice - Treaty of Peking.

I got the four provinces by selecting the event card. Now, several years later, I am trying to get a casus belli against the Chinese, so I can take Manchuria and Korea. I think a full scale war against China will be very enjoyable, especially since I have built the trans siberian railroad. Now if only those troublesome Poles, Bokharans, and Kokunders would stop periodically rebelling...

[nemethand]

I don't know if it is always in this way, but Alaska is bought for the Americans without other option playing with Russia.
I am disappointed about it, I hoped something more

The USA were afraid of a reaction of GB because Alaska was up the frontier line of 1818 and 1846 between USA and the british Canada.

I think it could be something to do for a next patch

I wonder: what was the price Russia received for Alaska?

[PhilThib]

IIRC 7.2 Million Dollars, a very cheap bargain even by the time's standard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Purchase

However, despite the big potential of Alaska, the USA did a much better real estate deal with Napoleon in 1802, purchasing Louisiana (in fact all the central part of USA), for 15 millions Dollars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase

[yellow ribbon]

IIRC [color="Red"]7.2 Million Dollars[/color], a very cheap bargain even by the time's standard

for whom an d compared to what... healthy economy vs. burdened economy, as nowadays



Britons spent only roughly [color="Red"]75 million Pound Sterling[/color] for the whole Crimean campaign

however, alone in in 1851 they exported goods in a total value of over [color="Red"]£3,548,595[/color] (See: Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, The Russian Menace to Europe") to the Ottoman Dominions


the Russians had the main burden of the war, financial as well as military losses and civil losses.
they had to wait 8 years before the purchase was settled and were in dare need of money.
i dont have the rates of inflation for them, but to be compared with strong vs weak economies:

the US government spent [color="Red"]2,5 million for the ACW each day[/color] in midwar!
federal $2.59 paper money equaled $1 in gold

the confederates had a rate of $60-$70 equaled for each gold dollar


now compare it to $4.74/km2 for the purchase and remember the jump in purchase power parity, i dont know yet for the US when the treaties were signed,nor for the Russians between End of the Crimean War and getting the payment for Alaska

IF RUSSIA NEEDED THE MONEY (TO AVOID further INFLATION), the they had no choice and apparently were happy about the price

[nemethand]

IIRC 7.2 Million Dollars, a very cheap bargain even by the time's standard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Purchase

However, despite the big potential of Alaska, the USA did a much better real estate deal with Napoleon in 1802, purchasing Louisiana (in fact all the central part of USA), for 15 millions Dollars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase

Very well, I had that coming. Thanks for the answer, PhilThib.

So, I slighly modified my question to reflect my true inquiry:

To those who has sold Alaska in the game, I wonder: in your game, what was the price Russia received for Alaska?

[nemethand]

I got the four provinces by selecting the event card. Now, several years later, I am trying to get a casus belli against the Chinese, so I can take Manchuria and Korea. I think a full scale war against China will be very enjoyable, especially since I have built the trans siberian railroad.

Just curious: when did you manage to finish the line and which route (major cities only) did you chosse?

[yellow ribbon]

"To those who has sold Alaska in the game, I wonder: in your game, what was the price Russia received for Alaska?"

its a scripted event what means it happens anyway. So you can look into the events folder on your hard disk, look for USA or Russias Events and open the file with a simple text-editor program.

[nemethand]

"To those who has sold Alaska in the game, I wonder: in your game, what was the price Russia received for Alaska?"

its a scripted event what means it happens anyway. So you can look into the events folder on your hard disk, look for USA or Russias Events and open the file with a simple text-editor program.

I already tried in the DB files and it only says "a vast amount of money" or sg like that.

[yellow ribbon]

well, if i look into the DB it tells me, without having the game installed:

Sale of Alaska 1867 (Russian Offer) NULL NULL
evt_nam_RUS_AlaskaSale1867 StartEvent 1
NULL Conditions NULL
NULL EvalColStatusArea $Colony_Alaska|=|$colColony
NULL MinDate 1867/04/01
NULL MaxDate 1877/03/01
NULL EvalIsAtPeaceWith USA
NULL Probability 50
NULL Actions NULL
NULL DescEvent evt_desc_RUS_AlaskaSale1867
[color="Red"]NULL ChangeResStock $merMoney|2000[/color]
NULL ChgFacRelationships USA|30
NULL ChgVPCount 50
NULL EndEvent NULL

[yellow ribbon]

BTW: the counter event for the US

Purchase of Alaska 1867 (Russian offer) NULL NULL
evt_nam_USA_SewardFolly1867 StartEvent 1
NULL Conditions NULL
NULL EvalEvent evt_nam_RUS_AlaskaSale1867|=|1
NULL MinDate 1867/04/01
NULL MaxDate 1877/03/01
[color="Red"]NULL Probability 75[/color]
NULL EvalIsAtPeaceWith RUS
NULL Actions NULL
NULL DescEvent evt_desc_USA_SewardFolly1867
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL ChangeRgnOwner RUS
NULL SetColStatusArea $Colony_Alaska|$colColony
NULL ChgFacRelationships RUS|20
NULL ChgFacRelationships GBR|-5
NULL ChgVPCount 500
NULL EndEvent NULL

THUS WE HAVE A SMALL PROBABILITY that it will not fire at all, have we?

[nemethand]

You must have better glasses than me! Thanks a lot.

[nemethand]

Did anyone get to the date when it is possible to build Siberian units? If yes, when can you first do that?

Thx in advance.

[yellow ribbon]

i am polishing my glasses...

its scripted as far i know, some units in the very beginning shall be cossacks and Siberian Cav. (only by name of the unit, not ethnic background) already in 1850 , but explicit units are for instance:

RSI_Inf_1870_Bde uni_RSI_Inf_1870_Bde RSI Infantry Brigade $Infantry Brigade Brigade d'Infanterie (1xBde) Infantry Brigade: 2 Inf.

RSI_Inf_1910_Bde uni_RSI_Inf_1910_Bde RSI Infantry Brigade $Infantry Brigade Brigade d'Infanterie (1xBde) Infantry Brigade: 2 Inf.

RSI_Inf_1870M_Bde uni_RSI_Inf_1870M_Bde RSI Militia Brigade $Militia Brigade Brigade de Milice (1xBde) Militia Brigade: 2 Mil. Inf.

RSI_Inf_1910M_Bde uni_RSI_Inf_1910M_Bde RSI Militia Brigade $Militia Brigade Brigade de Milice (1xBde) Militia Brigade: 2 Mil. Inf.

RSI_Cav_1870_Bde uni_RSI_Cav_1870_Bde RSI Cavalry Brigade $Cavalry Brigade Brigade de Cavalerie (1xBde) Cavalry Brigade: 2 Cav.

RSI_Cav_1890_Bde uni_RSI_Cav_1890_Bde RSI Cavalry Brigade $Cavalry Brigade Brigade de Cavalerie (1xBde) Cavalry Brigade: 2 Cav.

RSI_Mix_1870_Bde uni_RSI_Mix_1870_Bde RSI Mixed Brigade $Mixed Brigade Brigade Mixte (1xBde) Siberian Mixed Brigade: 1 Inf,, 1 Cav.

RSI_Mix_1910_Bde uni_RSI_Mix_1910_Bde RSI Mixed Brigade $Mixed Brigade Brigade Mixte (1xBde) Siberian Mixed Brigade: 1 Inf,, 1 Cav.

**************

RSI_Inf_1870_Div uni_RSI_Inf_1870_Div RSI Infantry Division $Infantry Division Division d'Infanterie (1xDiv) Siberian Infantry Division: 4 Inf., 2 Light Cav.

RSI_Inf_1890_Div uni_RSI_Inf_1890_Div RSI Infantry Division $Infantry Division Division d'Infanterie (1xDiv) Siberian Infantry Division: 4 Inf., 2 Light Cav.

RSI_Inf_1910_Div uni_RSI_Inf_1910_Div RSI Infantry Division $Infantry Division Division d'Infanterie (1xDiv) Siberian Infantry Division: 4 Inf., 2 Light Cav.

***************

RSI_Inf_1870_Corps uni_RSI_Inf_1870_Corps RSI Infantry Corps $Infantry Corps Corps d'Infanterie (+/-2xDiv) Siberian Infantry Corps: 1 HQ, 8 Inf., 2 field Art., 2 Light Cav.

RSI_Inf_1910_Corps uni_RSI_Inf_1910_Corps RSI Infantry Corps $Infantry Corps Corps d'Infanterie (+/-2xDiv) Siberian Infantry Corps: 1 HQ, 8 Inf., 2 field Art., 2 Light Cav.

RSI_Inf_1870M_Corps uni_RSI_Inf_1870M_Corps RSI Militia Corps $Militia Corps Corps de Milice (+/-2xDiv) Militia Corps: 1 Militia HQ, 8 Mil. Inf., 2 field Art.

RSI_Inf_1910M_Corps uni_RSI_Inf_1910M_Corps RSI Militia Corps $Militia Corps Corps de Milice (+/-2xDiv) Militia Corps: 1 Militia HQ, 8 Mil. Inf., 2 field Art.



**************


looks like technology gives the way free to levy them, no specific date.

for judging it on your own, you can open

VGN_DB_Units_37h from the original DB in the sticky thread,

search the file for the prefix:

[color="Red"]RSI_[/color]