French and indian war: the french side

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

I'm actually reading on the War of Conquest (Québécois's name for the French and Indian Wars) and I really can't get how the french colonial force are represented in the game. What we see as colonial line infantry take the place, and uniform, of the "compagnie franche de la Marine", elite body of nearly 6000 french and canadians marines with canadian officiers fighting indian style (petite guerre). What I don't get is why they are NOT represented like light infantry (like the rangers or Courriers des bois, who should be named coureurs de bois...)

In fact, it would lead to a french player having only his regular to fight like line infantry...wich is exactly the point during this war.

[PhilThib]

When I designed the original version, and based on my own reading, I did not got the impression that the "Compagnies Franches de la Marine" were fighting always like irregular fighters (Indians, Courreurs, Rangers)....may be I got it wrong?

So that's why they have become 'regular' infantry, of colonial (i.e. non French metropolitan) units...

However, as a mod of your own, you can tweak the data in the game and transform the models they are made of into Light Infantry if you wish

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

Really not good enough with modding for that

In a patch, would it be possible? Because for now, in each campain, every militias are sent to Chevalier de Levis to be trained into colonial line infantry and then, fight the english in ranged battle...wich is exactly how the US revolution worked...

In reality, the militas were trained to fight like line infantry only once, in 1760 by Levis for the counter attack on Quebec and the victory of Sainte Foy. For the rest of the war, when properly trained, they fought like irregular.

So, from an historian point of view, you could keep the militas system as it is. (even if the canadian militia proved time and time again to be great fighters when used correctly, so NOT in ranged battle)

When you trained them, they should become couriers to fight like irregular.

Just my historian ideas

Un grand merci en passant. C'est le seul jeu qui traite de la guerre de la conquête, et en tant que Québécois, c'est vraiment apprécié de pouvoir rejouer mon histoire.

[lodilefty]

This is relaively easy to do, so to be clear:

In the 1755 Campaign (French and Indian War, 7 Years War, War of Conquest) the French Militia units should upgrade (via training or experience) to couriers ?

I'm not a historian, but if this is more accurate, I'll gladly add it to the upcoming patch...

Note: I believe that I would NOT change the ratio of replacements, though. I'm thinking that if couriers take severe losses, they must be replaced by raising Militia => training again...

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

I'm historian, I could give you every source you need to confirm it.

You speak french?

That's the thing with the compagnie franche de la marine, they were unique. They were fighting in the wild like courrier but could fight like regular when serving like garrison (their original mission)

I don't know all about the mechanic of the game, can the courrier defend well fort and all? And can a unit have more than 2 compagnies of courrier?

[lodilefty]

Sorry, no. I'm an "ugly American" with no language skills.

Irregulars (couriers) are not the best defenders, and as "Raider" types, cannot capture forts, cities.

Let me think about this, as it must be a "quick/simple" model change, due to my committments to other games....

Stay tuned....

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

I'm there for any question.

[KG Erwin]

This is an interesting idea, and could prove to make the French AI a bit tougher, as the French were basically on the defensive in the latter part of the FIW. In the first few years, say from 1755-1757, the French strategy was an "offensive-defensive" one, so capturing British forts wasn't part of it, but taking unfortified towns WAS.

As far as not fighting like line infantry, this was what led to the great French victory over Braddock in 1755.

Marechal Cambronne, what percentage of the French forces could be called "regulars", then? I haven't studied the makeup of the French forces in North America, but some regulars were brought over from France, weren't they?

I must also ask if you've been playing the 1755-1763 "Colonial" version of the FIW, which is interesting as the American provincials are a separate faction. As I'm an American, I find this period of history fascinating, much more so than the Revolution 20 years later. The events in North America helped spark the true first world war, which is now called the Seven Years War.

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

This is an interesting idea, and could prove to make the French AI a bit tougher, as the French were basically on the defensive in the latter part of the FIW. In the first few years, say from 1755-1757, the French strategy was an "offensive-defensive" one, so capturing British forts wasn't part of it, but taking unfortified towns WAS.

[color="Blue"](In fact, the victory of Oswego (fort Chouagen) and Fort William Henry were the strategic goal of this period, they allowed French to keep control of the 2 road of invasion to Canada, along with holding Fort Duquesne and Louisbourg. So yes it was, but the two time, it was montcalm and his regular who took the forts (with great help of canadians irregulars and indians) in european style siege. After, the compagnie franche, the militias and a smal number of regular defended them)
[/color]

As far as not fighting like line infantry, this was what led to the great French victory over Braddock in 1755.

[color="Blue"](False again, the Monongaela victory was one of the only offensive use of the ability of the compagnie franche de la marine to fight like regular.
I encourage you to watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T33NCbQzOIg. The compagnies Franche were blocking Braddock advance by acting as line infantry while the irregular, militias and indians were sharpshooting.[/color]



Marechal Cambronne, what percentage of the French forces could be called "regulars", then? I haven't studied the makeup of the French forces in North America, but some regulars were brought over from France, weren't they?

[color="Blue"]( the french had 11 regular bataillons, from 10 regiments fighting in Europe.
Militias were the backbone of the defense: 15 000 approximativly. It is the biggest civilian mobilisation recorded in history) We also had at the start of the war 2400 men of the compagnie franche de la marine on the continent and 1100 in Louisbourg and Acadie. During the war, they received 2118 recorded men in reinforcement (but historians suspects that i could be the double, we lost nearly all New France archive when british loyalist burned down Montreal Parliament to force the canadian capital to move away from the french-canadians in the 1840's). It must be added that it was these men who forced Washington to surrender at Fort Necessity, the only american president to have surrendered to an enemy . [/color]

I must also ask if you've been playing the 1755-1763 "Colonial" version of the FIW, which is interesting as the American provincials are a separate faction. As I'm an American, I find this period of history fascinating, much more so than the Revolution 20 years later. The events in North America helped spark the true first world war, which is now called the Seven Years War.

[color="Blue"](Always playing the colonial scenario, all historians agrees that there were much more opposition between americans and english than between french and canadians. And yes, it's an interesting period. How I wish we could have won it...)[/color]

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

Being relativly new to Ageod (just got my second game today, Napoleon campaign)...How is light infantry represented?

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

So, no change for the colonial infantry in the beta patch?

[lodilefty]

So, no change for the colonial infantry in the beta patch?

Sorry, no.

Not a "minor, simple" change to do it right...

Fertile ground for modders at this time.....
...and I'll gladly coach a modder through it...

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

Converting the colonial line infantry to light infantry, could it be a simple change?

[lodilefty]

Converting the colonial line infantry to light infantry, could it be a simple change?

Yes, but:

There is already a Canadian Light Infantry model (Infanterie Légère).
Would it be OK to have the Canadian Militia upgrade to these Light Infantry, rather than to the Troupes de Marine? Then we have both types available.

• Need to edit only the TechUpg and TrainUpg params in Militia models
• Need 1 new Unit: with 4 Infanterie Légère for the upgraded unit...

This is a simple change, and can be done before final patch

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

I think so. Canadian light infantry should be renamed Troupe de la Marine. But what are the stats of light infantry?

[lodilefty]

I think so. Canadian light infantry should be renamed Troupe de la Marine. But what are the stats of light infantry?

Compare models:
Light Infantry: 149CAN_Model_Name_CAN_Lit.mdl
Couriers: 147CAN_Model_Name_CAN_Cou.mdl
Troups de: 148CAN_Model_Name_CAN_Col.mdl

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

It would seem great, but they can't move faster than the line infantry ?? It's king of the point of the change, that they can support the courrier and the indians...


Another question, i'm doing a PBEM game as the french. It's 1759 and i still hold Louisbourg. But the english just landed a large force in Québec! Historicly, it would have been impossible to do so with Louisbourg blocking the Gulf.

[lodilefty]

It would seem great, but they can't move faster than the line infantry ?? It's king of the point of the change, that they can support the courrier and the indians...


Another question, i'm doing a PBEM game as the french. It's 1759 and i still hold Louisbourg. But the english just landed a large force in Québec! Historicly, it would have been impossible to do so with Louisbourg blocking the Gulf.

I'll look at the movement class...

The game is designed to required "running the gautlet" to go past Louisbourg, which should bombard them, but the passes are still open if the enemy desires....

I know of no way with the game engine to do a "conditional block" to totally prevent movement by one side....

[marechalCAMBRONNE]

I will just let the Chevalier de Lévis and his men to send the english back to the sea then! POUR LE ROY!!!!