Loyalty Primer

[tagwyn]

Merry Christmas Mae!!!

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Moriety]

That is excellent- thank you both very much!- I will have a look this evening and start testing this evening. Do you know what value the "dice" has for the police check? (ie; 20 points, 100 points etc).

I also have a question on the 0-5 variables listed within the generic abilities files regarding "Occupier", "Hated-occupant" and "Good population Admin" traits- I'll edit this post later when I've had a chance to copy and paste the values.

Testing so far indicates that these abilities only work in provinces with a city- which whilst being handy is exactly the provinces that are always garrisoned permanently anyway, thus always providing 100% control!!

Edit:

Okay- I unzipped the file and changed the value to 2 (2%), but have no idea where to place the edited file! (I cant find it in the folders).

Regardering the parameters of these leader traits:

Hated_Occupant/Occupier/Good_Admin_Pop/Pillager_Pop

Param0 = 150 130 80 125
Param1 = 30 15 0 0
Param2 = 60 50 101 101
Param3 = 5 5 0 0
Param4 = 0 0 1 -1
Param5 = 1 1 1 0
Param6 = 90 60 76 75

I assume parameter 4 is the result of a failed dice roll, whilst parameter 5 is the result of a succesful dice roll? (no change/change)

I say this as a leader who has "good pop admin" as a trait always changes loyalty of a city province by 1% whether or not he has units with him and whether or not he is active (thus giving the value as 1 for each paramenter).
whilst Pop pillage trait reduces loyalty by 1% if the dice roll fails, if the player succeeds, the zero in parameter 5 shows no change to loyalty, whilst a successful roll for "occupier" gets a +1 loyaly in parameter 5, no change on parameter 4 (failed roll).

Any ideas/knowlege about this? What do the other parameters represent?

I'd love to understand the police dice-roll system most of all, as this is the real area I want to adjust

[Rafiki]

I'll edit this post later when I've had a chance to copy and paste the values.

When there's a delay between edits, it's generally better to make a new post, since many rely on "new posts" to see if there are updates to threads

[Coffee Sergeant]

It is not logical for a player to be able to convert loyalty even in the whole time span of the Civil War. Heck it's been 144 years since the end of the war and there are still people in the Southern states that haven't forgotten nor forgiven the Northerner's. People are like that.

There were historically some regions whose dedication to the Confederacy was only lukewarn. Southern Louisiana being a good example. The Union didn't have 1/10 of the problems in conquered Louisiana that they did in conquered Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri.

On the other side of the coin, Maryland gave the Union some real problems, at least early in the war.

I think the game does oversimplify things a bit with the loyalty. Its not a just a percentage of citizens supporting one side or the other all things being equal. Its how dedicated the population was to "the cause", as well. I think you could say in the case of Louisiana, it got the support of whoever happening to be holding it. But that was not the case in Virginia, most parts of Tennessee and Missouri.

[Nial]

Agreed, but unless your going to differentiate down to the county by county level? Which I think is not realistic in a computer simulation. Historicly, conquered populations don't usually like their conquerers. And assimilation of whole swathes of territory usually is measured in decades not years and certainly not months. The Romans were able to do it reasonably well with their offers of citizenship for conquered peoples. But even then it was frequently a mixed bag result. I am by no means saying that everyone in the south hated the northern occupation. But the greater majority certainly did not welcome the Yanks with open arms. There were strong feelings on both sides. Many families, including mine had people fighting for different sides. For that to happen? You had to have extremely strong personal feelings about the rightness of your cause. Those feelings don't wash away in a year or two, if ever!

Nial

[Moriety]

Hi Nial,

I'm not so concerned with the loyalty value per se, it is the effect it has on control of a province. I need my supply-lines to be maintained and the only way to do this is to quite literally, cover the map in blue-coated militia to maintain control. This task is extremely time consuming involving the constant stuffling of units around the map, which for me is distracting from the fun of the game and turning it into a never-ending logistical nightmare!

The only way I can negate some of this problem is to actually change the police system in some way that actually increases loyalty (the governor of control) in non-city provinces: getting 220+ notifications a turn- most of which are about my units shuffling, along with weather/supply problems to these units is not fun!

The American Civil War is very important to you guys (for me it's WWI and II as a Brit') but I just want to enjoy this excellent game as a realistic strategy simulation- but without the extreme micro-management the loyalty/control interaction causes.

Toby

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Nial]

Hi Nial,

I'm not so concerned with the loyalty value per se, it is the effect it has on control of a province. I need my supply-lines to be maintained and the only way to do this is to quite literally, cover the map in blue-coated militia to maintain control. This task is extremely time consuming involving the constant stuffling of units around the map, which for me is distracting from the fun of the game and turning it into a never-ending logistical nightmare!

The only way I can negate some of this problem is to actually change the police system in some way that actually increases loyalty (the governor of control) in non-city provinces: getting 220+ notifications a turn- most of which are about my units shuffling, along with weather/supply problems to these units is not fun!

The American Civil War is very important to you guys (for me it's WWI and II as a Brit') but I just want to enjoy this excellent game as a realistic strategy simulation- but without the extreme micro-management the loyalty/control interaction causes.

Toby

Hey Toby

I understand. And as I tend to play the South more often than not, it is usually not as much of a hassle for me. The North pretty much HAS to attack and conquer large areas of territory to win the game. AACWs penchant for irregulars to pop up all over the place behind the lines makes the Norths supply problems even more acute. I frequently mod my own game for little nuances that are important to me, and have no problem with, as well as a healthy respect for anyone that is willing to take the time to mod their own game to improve their personal enjoyment.

Nial

[Rafiki]

I need my supply-lines to be maintained and the only way to do this is to quite literally, cover the map in blue-coated militia to maintain control.

Why do you have to cover tha map? Sounds to me that you are brute-forcing your supply distribution rather than looking at how you can do it more efficiently, e.g by using river/ocean supply and by concentrating on fewer supply routes?

[Moriety]

Thanks Nial,

I'm on my third game as Union, once this current one is over I intend taking the plunge and donning the CSA cap!

Hi Rafiki,

Even with 9-10 supply pushes late in the game I was still losing pairs of militia to lack of supply- even though they were baby-sitting rail/road provinces precisely to maintain the supply lines!

[Dixicrat]

"...Even with 9-10 supply pushes late in the game...

I don't understand what you mean by "9-10 supply pushes". As I understand it, there are only three supply pushes per turn. Would you explain, please?

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Moriety]

Oh! Thats a pity- I built up a large excess supply capacity when I saw it saying "supply phase 4" on one particular turn, thinking you got more pushes if you built ever more surplus capacity- oh well!

[Rafiki]

Even with 9-10 supply pushes late in the game I was still losing pairs of militia to lack of supply- even though they were baby-sitting rail/road provinces precisely to maintain the supply lines!

That doesn't necessarily suffice. They need to be at or next to a depot, city, supply wagon or transport ship or similar. (They can also get supply from other units in the same region, but that doesn't help much in your case, I imagine)

http://www.ageod.net/aacwwiki/Supply#Supply_consumption

[Nial]

That doesn't necessarily suffice. They need to be at or next to a depot, city, supply wagon or transport ship or similar. (They can also get supply from other units in the same region, but that doesn't help much in your case, I imagine)

http://www.ageod.net/aacwwiki/Supply#Supply_consumption

You aren't kidding. I lost supply for the entire state of MO. last night for two turns. I was a bit mortified to say the least, envisioning the whole Army of the West just melting away. To say I was scrambling to fix the problem would be an understatement.

Nial

[Rafiki]

You aren't kidding. I lost supply for the entire state of MO. last night for two turns. I was a bit mortified to say the least, envisioning the whole Army of the West just melting away. To say I was scrambling to fix the problem would be an understatement. l

Fun, ain't it?

[Nial]

Fun, ain't it?

Absolutely

[Moriety]

Hi Rafiki,

That's actually really useful info!
No more than 2 provinces between depots on a supply route....

[Rafiki]

Hi Rafiki,

That's actually really useful info!

Happy to be of help

No more than 2 provinces between depots on a supply route....

Actually, if you want full coverage along your supply route, you'll need a depot every three regions, since each depot also covers a region on each side.

However, building depots every 3 regions isn't strictly necessary, since you can have supply wagon units do much of the same (attract supply and give it to nearby units).

But what I really recommend is to make the very best use you can of rivers to bring forth your supplies, then you don't need to worry about military control and loyalty and such (as long as you make sure to keep CSA ships away from your supply lines, that is )