AGEOD Forums

Where do supplies come from to replenish the Atlantic blockade and shipping boxes? I'm getting messages that I'm out of supply yet I have maximum shipping transportation points.

Is there some harbor or port that I must control that links to the off-map boxes? Is there a particular ship that acts like a supply wagon and I need to put more of those ships in both boxes?

Is my loss of Norfolk and its harbor a key factor?

Also, after searching all the other threads about the Navy, several have never been answered with these key strategy questions:

1. What are the most effective naval units for shipping, blockade and supply?

2. What are the important strategies for maxxing out the blockade window or manually having blockades along the coast at key enemy ports?

Any help to understand the Naval side of the game would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I'll try to answer.
I can speak from Union side as I played rebs once or twice.

Shipping
In order to supply your forces in OPensacola and some other forts that haven't got any land link to your mainland you have to send as many transport ships you have to shipping box. I usually attach few battleships to protect them from rebel riders.

Blockade
Idea is to have an equal force in both blockade boxes. I usually build blockade fleets. I don't worry to much about cohesion but if some of those blockaders get damaged I send them to harbors. Those from north to Baltimore; harbor 10 I belive and those from south to Pickens. Pickens is only harbor 1 but it is close.
Harbor level is important for speed of repairing damage.

Blockading harbors
Never did it as I test all the time and didn0t pass 1861. in my games leure: . I belive this will help as to stop rebel traffic beetwen harbors. I am not sure does it benefit the blockade.


Hope this helps

rasnell wrote:Where do supplies come from to replenish the Atlantic blockade and shipping boxes? I'm getting messages that I'm out of supply yet I have maximum shipping transportation points.

You have to cycle your ships in and out of ports by bringing them back to a friendly port. Think of it as supply, plus repairs needed to keep the ships in shape.

rasnell wrote:1. What are the most effective naval units for shipping, blockade and supply?

Basically Frigates, and Steam Frigates go after raiders, but can also be used in the blockade box. Obviously, the best units for blockading are blockade fleets since they contain frigates and blockade ships. Shipping and supply are the same, use transports.

rasnell wrote:2. What are the important strategies for maxxing out the blockade window or manually having blockades along the coast at key enemy ports?

Both. The only way to have a truly effective blockade is to take the ports. Brown water blockade is more effective than blue water, but can result in lost fleets if you're not careful. Blue water is much less effective, and no matter what you have in the box, will be capped out at a certain % (25 if I remember correctly) because trying to stop ships in a wide open sea is pretty much a matter of luck in these days. So, if you want an effective blockade, you need to do both types.

ships don't resupply automatically in the boxes, but they have a good staying power, something like 12-16 turns of autonomy. You have to rotate some in and out from time to time.

Marecone is right for the rest. You are better to add some ships in the blockade box first (to get something like 25% but it can climb higher, the return on investment lowering for each % though), then to blockade the biggest confederate ports, this will add up.

Pocus wrote:ships don't resupply automatically in the boxes, but they have a good staying power, something like 12-16 turns of autonomy. You have to rotate some in and out from time to time.

WOW ?!? I didn't know that. So this is why my Mexican Gulf blockade squadron sucks .

Thanks boss

Thanks to all three of you. The manual is very good, but actual strategy tips like these are really needed. Maybe this link could go to the new FAQ thread that someone suggested.

Sorry. One more question:

In the ledger, we're able to increase our transport capacity for railroads and rivers. Yet there is a third legend on the main game screen showing sea transport capacity.

I assume we only increase this by manually adding transports in the reinforcements and then moving them to the shipping box. Am I right?

My ships seem to last just one turn at sea, then I am obliged to return them to port. I know I am doing something wrong -- I just don't know what.

Also, per Rasnell's question that I don't think got answered -- if supply of ports, etc., is automatic, why is it that Fortress Monroe has zero supply, and what can I do to fix this?

Thanks

rasnell,
Sea transport capacity is show along the top of the main screen, just to the left of the Money/Conscript/Supply display.
The third little icon, a ship, is the sea capacity.
You are correct about increasing it, buy transports as normal reenforcements.

K-1stPA,
Ft Monroe was missing a port in the initial release version of the game. Download an install the patch 1.01a to fix it.

K-1stPennaRes wrote:My ships seem to last just one turn at sea, then I am obliged to return them to port. I know I am doing something wrong -- I just don't know what.


Thanks

This is rather abnormal and last time I checked the things were right, are you sure you don't have any supply, or is it just cohesion which is low?

tc237 wrote:rasnell,
Sea transport capacity is show along the top of the main screen, just to the left of the Money/Conscript/Supply display.
The third little icon, a ship, is the sea capacity.
You are correct about increasing it, buy transports as normal reenforcements.

K-1stPA,
Ft Monroe was missing a port in the initial release version of the game. Download an install the patch 1.01a to fix it.

OK. I'm slowly getting this, I think. So, I manually create transports and that will increase my sea capacity. Do I need to place them anywhere or just the mere creation of them, resting in whatever originating port, is enough?

To enhance the shipping box and get the most supplies, are transports the key to be moved into that box along with some protection from frigates?

That's what I do it, though if that's my intuition or my knowledge deciding to do it that way, I can't say for sure

Yep, that's it guys (I think )
Build transports and send them to the Shipping Lanes box.
Protect them with frigates.

Do a little test, remove all transports from Shipping Lanes and in a few turns watch as all your coastal locations starve.

Pocus wrote:ships don't resupply automatically in the boxes, but they have a good staying power, something like 12-16 turns of autonomy. You have to rotate some in and out from time to time.

Marecone is right for the rest. You are better to add some ships in the blockade box first (to get something like 25% but it can climb higher, the return on investment lowering for each % though), then to blockade the biggest confederate ports, this will add up.

This rotating sounds like a lot of extra (and annoying?) micro management no?

John_C wrote:This rotating sounds like a lot of extra (and annoying?) micro management no?

Might be annoying, but what else you gonna do? Ships don't replenish and repair at sea.

This was one of the prime responsibilities of those managing enforcement of the blockade. I don't think it needs to be changed at all.

The whole "new construction - on station - return to port for replenishment and repair - how many assets to assign where, and with what orders" dynamic is almost a game in itself.

I like it.

I really like the Blockade system.
I always wondered why the Union took cities on the coast of SC and NC but never advanced inland.
Now I know, they needed them as a base to re-supply the blockade fleet.

This adds a totally new dimension to your strategic planning as the USA.
And the map is just the right scale that you have to actually fight a small campaign for each coastal base.

Brilliant!!

tc237 wrote:I really like the Blockade system.
I always wondered why the Union took cities on the coast of SC and NC but never advanced inland.
Now I know, they needed them as a base to re-supply the blockade fleet.

This adds a totally new dimension to your strategic planning as the USA.
And the map is just the right scale that you have to actually fight a small campaign for each coastal base.

Brilliant!!

I agree wholeheartedly...it's very compelling .

tc237 wrote:I always wondered why the Union took cities on the coast of SC and NC but never advanced inland.
Now I know, they needed them as a base to re-supply the blockade fleet.

...and to simplify the problem. When you control the port, blockade runners to and from there are no longer a concern.

I wholeheartedly agree with you - the blockade stuff is one of the best-designed parts of the game. The only suggestion I have had for improvement of the naval rules is a better graphic depiction of naval combat (results, of course, not cute little pictures of boats splashing around and going, "bang bang powie" at each other).

Now, if I could just get the hang of seaborne invasions and riverine operations...

John_C wrote:This rotating sounds like a lot of extra (and annoying?) micro management no?

The fact that the Union player needs to keep rotating his ships into port for refits is a very compelling reason to want to expand your navy. If there were no required refits and players could leave their ships at sea endlessly, you’d never have to build a single ship unless it was to replace a sunken one.

Historically the Union greatly expanded their navy during the war in order to make their blockade campaign strategy an effective one. Personally I think the feel of the naval system suits this reality very well. I find myself in 1861 constantly contemplating spending money on expanding my navy when I can’t really afford to do so yet.

But the pull towards naval construction is a real one and it is due mainly because I usually have half or more of my ships transiting to and from ports, so my effectiveness is very minimal right now. I literally can’t wait till I get another 10-20 blockade ships to play with. Not to mention another 20-30 transports to dramatically increase my European imports.

Micromanagement fears be dammed, the naval game is intriguing and fun in AACW.

Jim

Though I think there are parts in the game that are better designed that the blockade system, I do have to agree it has it's challenges

Currently in 1862 in my Union game, and I find that I need quite compelling reasons to not initiate the building of a blockade fleet each turn.

I also found myself in a campaign for New Orleans, not to start cutting the CSA in to at the Mississippi (though that counted too), but because New Orleans is one of the best (= fastest recovery/replenishment) ports in the Gulf, as well as being close to the blockade box.

The blockade system is not bad as is, but I do have a few nits to pick:

1) As mentioned in another thread, to brown water blockade a port, you have to cover all the egresses...and this often means the ones leading up river as well as the ones out to sea. Which is sort of counter-intuitive, as you'd think the sea exits would be enough for the blockade to count.

2) I was able to blockade Charleston one game by merely running the forts and sailing a group of ships into Charleston harbor. A took a few hits from the run, but that was all; my blockaders sat under the guns in the harbor for months unmolested. Seems forts only shoot at you as you sail past. Which in this particular case was not too realistic.

3) Control of forts don't seem to count towards blockading nearby egress points on ports (ie, holding Ft. Sumter will not automatically blockade Charleston; Ft. Pickens alone does not blockade Pensacola, etc...).

2 and 3 really make coastal forts much less valuable than they were historically.

IIRC, the guns' emplacements of those Pre-War forts were designed for shooting AWAY from the United States, not at the United States

Since naval warfare is such a big part of the game, especially for the Union, it would really help to have a tutorial on this aspect of the game. I'd like to see a routine process for rotating ships and creating both kinds of blockades. Learning how to do an amphibious invasion would also help (since there are times when my troops won't offload onto a hostile shore). The naval part of this game has been the most frustrating for me primarily because there isn't a tutorial for this part of the game.

there is a bit of micro management involved, when you rotate ships in and out of the boxes, but we tried to reduce it quite a bit by giving an almost ahistorical autonomy to ships.

About brown blockade, we know it can be improved. Having to blockade a river entrance is not that intuitive, right. But about the remark on forts: they don't impact the number of ships needed to blockade a sea zone, although they never blockade it by themselves (on purpose).

[quote="jimwinsor"]The blockade system is not bad as is, but I do have a few nits to pick:


2) I was able to blockade Charleston one game by merely running the forts and sailing a group of ships into Charleston harbor. A took a few hits from the run, but that was all; my blockaders sat under the guns in the harbor for months unmolested. Seems forts only shoot at you as you sail past. Which in this particular case was not too realistic.

Perhaps this would not not have been the case for Charleston. However, this is exactly what happened in Mobile. Farragut sailed passed the forts as per Pocus' signature and sat in the harbour for months leaving both forts and city unmolested, but blockaded.

I'm still struggling to understand even the basics of the Navy. I have a large number of ships, the USS variety, frigates and even some blockade flotilla in the blockade box and yet it still says "0 percent". I'm talking about 25-30 individual ships.

What exactly makes for the most effective blockade in the blue-water blockade box? Frigate, USS, blockade flotilla, brig. I don't even know what the difference is in the function or power (I saw that PhilTib said a unit guide is coming soon, and I desperately need one).

When would you consider brown-water, port blockades more effective than the blue-water blockade box?

Is any ship safe against the ironclad? Armored frigate?

I made myself a little comparison chart yesterday to try to figure out what type of ship would be best for what role.

For the blue water blockade, here are the key values:

Type Patrol Blockade Detect

Frigate 8 5 5
Steam Frigate 7 4 4
Brig 6 2 3
Blockade Ship 9 10 3

So, from the above data, it would seem to me that by far the best ships to use for the blue water blockade are the blockade ships, perhaps aided by a frigate or two for their higher detection values. The steam frigate and the brig seem to have much less value for this mission.

For escorting your transport fleets in the commerce box, the frigate seems like the best choice. It has the highest detection value, giving your fleet the best chance to find confederate raiders. I split my fleets in this box into two groups, the transport group, with one or two escorts, )and set it to evade combat) and the hunter-killer group, with largely frigates and the occasional steam frigate in case combat gets heavy, set to aggressively seek out and fight CSA raiders.

For brown water blockade, I am guessing that a combination of blockade ships, coupled with a frigate for detection and a steam frigate for protection, would be best.

Not sure what use the brig is?

For Naval Combat, here is how things break down:

Type Off fire Def fire Initiative Range ROF Protect

Brig 4 4 8 6 3 0
Frigate 5 5 7 7 3 1
Steam Frigate 10 9 8 8 2 2
Monitor 14 10 7 7 2 11

From the above lists, it would appear that as the North, the Steam Frigate should be the centerpiece of your battle fleets. It has great offensive, defensive fire, range, and initiative. It even has a small amount of armor. Only drawback is a slower rate of fire. Of course, keep these fleets away from monitors and ironclads. The North should have a separate ocean ironclad fleet or two operating in support of these battle fleets.

One other category to check is shore bombardment, and resistance to fire from shore/installations. Dont have that data up yet, maybe later.

Feel free to comment/criticize this analysis. I am interested in whether others have the same take on this I have, or not. And also, whether anyone playing the North has a good rationale for building the brig.

Seems to me, for a close-in brown water blockade, Brigs all the way. Simply because blockade thresholds per sea area are in terms of "units," and a Brig being the cheapest combat unit available.

Once you satisfy the unit requirement to shut down all sea areas around a port, it gets hit with the desired economic penalties.

I'm not even sure what the "Blockade" rating does. Number of units seem to be key here.

Private Hancock, thank you so much. Very important info. Where were you able to find the ratings? Not in manual and I couldn't find in any of the text or game files.

PhilThib says a complete unit guide will be coming soon, but, in the meantime, this is very helpful.

Am I correct that you would keep frigates and those attacking and searching for blockade runners on the "offensive posture?"

rasnell,
Do you have ships in both blockade boxes?
If you leave one empty, they will both be 0%.
The percentage is your entire blockade efficiency for both boxes. It is the same number for both, displayed in two areas.