powcarrot27
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invading La in 1961

Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:21 am

What would be the general consensus on an amphibious invasion of Louisiana in early 61? Would this be considered gamey since the CSA has no means of defending against such an operation?

Gen. Monkey-Bear
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Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:13 am

I do not consider this gamey as the CSA was quite limited on resources in real life and therefore would not have been able to withstand a LA invasion so early in the war. It is entirely up to the CSA player how he or she wishes to spend these limited resources, but securing Louisiana means diverting forces from more immediately threatening fronts.

The real question is whether the Union has the strength to invade Louisiana in 1861, especially in Early 1861 as you suggest. Keep in mind that both sides are resource-limited at the beginning of the war, but the Union strengthens over time while the Confederacy weakens.

powcarrot27
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Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:18 pm

I was asking because I'm currently playing an pbem game and that has happened to me. My opponent landed an 8 to 6 thousand man division at the fort South of New Orleans. Being the Confederates, I have noting to spare, so that means he can effectively cripple my already weak industry and do what Sherman did years later in the war.I can understand this is a game and all and the object is to win but why even attempt something so implausible and ludicrous? What about enjoying the journey in trying to defeat the Confederacy? I dont think it takes much skill for a Union player to decide before the game starts getting good to be like. "Hey, i know the CSA is totally undefendable in the southern coastal states; lets invade there."The union player is álready going to win in the long run. If. My opponent didnt have hind sight 20 20, he would not have tried it. Even if I use hindsight, I cant execute a move that's even remotely as crippling.

vonRocko
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Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:11 pm

I don't feel it is "gamey" at all. the terrain is bad, and as the CSA, I can usually scrape something up to offer resistance. The union may get New Orleans, but I have had success keeping them bottled up there.

powcarrot27
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Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:56 pm

Thanks for the opinions. What happened on the other fronts vonrocko and did you use a house rule against using mobilization until later? We do but it can be argued that had La been invaded so early on, the CSA would have definately started mobilization.

vonRocko
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Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:58 pm

powcarrot27 wrote:Thanks for the opinions. What happened on the other fronts vonrocko and did you use a house rule against using mobilization until later? We do but it can be argued that had La been invaded so early on, the CSA would have definately started mobilization.


No house rule. I can see where that house rule can change the picture. But I still think it is not gamey because, for the union to make a decent sized landing in 61 they also have to scrape a bit. I sometimes send the force that captures Sumter over to La. , then a few rgiments from here and there. With your house rule, it is a tough call on "gameyness", but if something is not beyond the realm of possibility (which this isn't), I wouldn't call it gamey.
Good luck!

exar83
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Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:35 am

well I can certainly imagine how surprised the citizens of New Orleans would be if their own federal government invaded in 1961!! :neener:

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Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:18 am

It is not gamey at all. In early 1861, without mobilization, US can muster a division sized invasion force. In marshy terrain, defending an amphibious landing, single CSA brigade can defend it against 4:1 odds. So it is not gamey at all. It is in fact very risky for US player to invade so early. The brigade can be recruited after call for voluntaries, or Caroline Department after taking FT Sumter can be used to defend South coast. It is up to CSA player. Everything cannot be defended, sections of the coast can be adequately defended and a nasty surprise on amphib landing can be achieved.

powcarrot27
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Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:18 pm

I guess the phrase gamey is wrong..more like cheap.I have to disagree about there being no risk involved,trying to retake Ft. Sumter would be risky. my opponent hasn't taken a single risk yet, for instance not trying to amphibiously invade the lightly defended peninsula, but instead sending forces through the mountains in West Virginia. In order to defend against the invasion of La, you either have to be thinking about it from turn 1, or have experienced such a move before. Every union player uses hindsight while knowing that CSA players are more concerned with Union forces in Va, Ky, and Mo and are trying to build up adequate forces to repel them. If Union players knew that CSA players could field a divisions In La from the start, they wouldn't try to invade. You don't see CSA players invading New Jersey or Delaware.
Personally I stick to a semi-historic playstyle. Either way, he seems to have disappeared, and I've learned my lesson. I'm just glad he didn't attempt amphibious invasions on all the Southern states.
thanks again for the opinions

wsatterwhite
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Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:29 am

powcarrot27 wrote:In order to defend against the invasion of La, you either have to be thinking about it from turn 1, or have experienced such a move before.


As the Confederate player you need to be prepared for the Union to attack anywhere, all things considered New Orleans should be priority #2 after Richmond and the Virginia front. This is really no different from what happened historically as the Union started amphibious operations in late 1861 and as soon as they discovered that NO was vulnerable, they attacked it

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Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:07 pm

powcarrot27 wrote:In order to defend against the invasion of La, you either have to be thinking about it from turn 1, or have experienced such a move before.


Yes, you have to think about it from day one, as the Union has to if it tries to invade.

powcarrot27 wrote:If Union players knew that CSA players could field a divisions In La from the start, they wouldn't try to invade.


But the CSA can easily field 100-150 str points in the area. It should be enough in 61.

powcarrot27 wrote:You don't see CSA players invading New Jersey or Delaware.


The CSA cannot perform amphib operations without a navy. US can and it did historically.

powcarrot27 wrote:Personally I stick to a semi-historic playstyle.


If you prefer, it can be arranged via house rules. If you would like, we can play a PBEM, I ll be CSA, so you could see, while underdogs, CSA can put up a fight.

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