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Jerzul
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Effective Raiding

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:55 pm

So my friend and I (Wraith) are playing our first game of ACW as a PBEM. I'm the noble republic and he's the rebels... We have a few questions, chief among them: :niark: How do you effectively raid? :indien: He led a raid up into IL and ended up being routed due to lack of supply and a response of infantry by me. The problem seemed to be that he ran into Salem, IL which had a garrison and his cavalry force was unable to defeat the garrison in time to get to the depot. :grr: So, my question is this:

As of the 1.16 (newest) patch, what are the general "procedures" or "do's and don't's" of effective raiding? We both want to know because I may find myself in butternut one of these days...

Thanks a head of time!
I have heard, in such a way as to believe it, of your recently saying that both the army and the government needed a dictator. Of course it was not for this, but in spite of it, that I have given you the command. Only those generals who gain success can be dictators. What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk the dictatorship.

-Abraham Lincoln, 1863, in a letter to Major General Joseph Hooker.

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Wraith
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Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:23 pm

Just a bit more information about the situation:

I had a task-organized division for the operation: Leader, 3 CAV Squadrons and a CAV Artillery Squadron. Apparently, these forces were rebuffed by a lone militia regiment... then they were shooed away by a larger force (of infantry). As it is, my guys are scooting away as fast as they can because they're out of supply at this point...

I'm mostly concerned that bringing supply wagons reduces the flexibility and mobility of a cavalry raiding force, as well as making the force unbearably visible to hostiles; completely rendering a low-profile raid null and void. I also can understand why the rules are now requiring a 10 day delay (or whatever) to destroying rail lines; I can't understand an X-day delay for blowing a depot: it's full of highly explosive stuff. It shouldn't take all that much to blow it up... My concern is that since it takes so long to get into the backfield, then a turn to take or secure a town, then time to blow the depot... the supply usage is getting ridiculous (as units only have two turns of supplies).

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Jim-NC
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Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:24 pm

By the time of 1.16 the rules have been tweaked on raiding. Early calvary can not capture an enemy town (early cav turns into late cav in late 1862/early 1863). A depot is considered inside a town. An enemy town is where you don't have a high loyalty.

Thus a early cav only unit/division can't capture and blow a depot in a town unless it is in the native area (read has been controlled by your side for a while, and just recently lost).

To blow up depots behind the lines, you need men with the pillager ability (either general or unit). Note, they suffer the same can't capture enemy towns problem. Indians make good raiders in the early game as they have this characteristic, and they don't need much supply.

This was changed to prevent single unit cav raids in enemy territory (some considered this a gamey exploit) blowing up everything in sight (rails and depots).
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Jerzul
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Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Jim-NC wrote:By the time of 1.16 the rules have been tweaked on raiding. Early calvary can not capture an enemy town (early cav turns into late cav in late 1862/early 1863). A depot is considered inside a town. An enemy town is where you don't have a high loyalty.

Thus a early cav only unit/division can't capture and blow a depot in a town unless it is in the native area (read has been controlled by your side for a while, and just recently lost).

To blow up depots behind the lines, you need men with the pillager ability (either general or unit). Note, they suffer the same can't capture enemy towns problem. Indians make good raiders in the early game as they have this characteristic, and they don't need much supply.

This was changed to prevent single unit cav raids in enemy territory (some considered this a gamey exploit) blowing up everything in sight (rails and depots).


So in the early years you'll need to bring infantry with you to take a town?

Also, does Horse Artillery allow you to take a town?

AND, in the case of the game described above, he (Wraith) should look to raid towns that have high Confederate loyalty? (MO, KY, MD?).

Thanks for the response Jim-NC!
I have heard, in such a way as to believe it, of your recently saying that both the army and the government needed a dictator. Of course it was not for this, but in spite of it, that I have given you the command. Only those generals who gain success can be dictators. What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk the dictatorship.



-Abraham Lincoln, 1863, in a letter to Major General Joseph Hooker.

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Jim-NC
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Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:41 pm

Yes, you need infantry to take a town in the early part of the game (and thus a depot in a town). Note that sometimes depots are not in towns. It must be infantry, support units don't work (artillery/engineers/etc), and IIRC militia doesn't count either.

As the CSA, you can capture towns with high loyalty which is most of MO, some of KY (depending on events), and MD. If the union captures a town in Arkansas for example, the cav can capture it back. As the game progresses, the south loses loyalty in union occupied towns (and vice versa). Thus re-capture as soon as possible.

Also a note, the pillager immediately destroys an enemy depot upon capture. To "blow" a depot using the orders, you need 5 days minimum. There are some special cases where it takes longer. I think it is a recently captured depot takes longer.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Wraith
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Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:01 pm

Well, that renders my entire western plans and forces for those areas completely ineffective and effectively worthless for another year.

What's the point of even having those units (ie, those irregulars etc) available for purchase if they're completely ineffective for years?

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Ethan
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Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:33 pm

IMHO, I don't think the irregulars (such as sharpshooters) are ineffective. In fact, they are an essential element to form divisions properly.

Anyway, if what you want is to do raids, prepare for example a force with 4 or 5 cavalry regiments, a horse artillery unit and a good cavalry leader and you can destroy some Union railroads to annoy sufficiently. If you also want to blow up some depots, add an infantry regiment to your force.

Good luck! :thumbsup:
[color="Navy"][font="Georgia"]"Mi grandeza no reside en no haber caído nunca, sino en haberme levantado siempre". Napoleón Bonaparte.[/font][/color]

[color="Blue"]Same Land. Different Dreams. - Photobook[/color]

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Ethan
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Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:34 pm

Wraith wrote:Well, that renders my entire western plans and forces for those areas completely ineffective and effectively worthless for another year.

What's the point of even having those units (ie, those irregulars etc) available for purchase if they're completely ineffective for years?


IMHO, I don't think the irregulars (such as sharpshooters) are ineffective. In fact, they are an essential element to form divisions properly.

Anyway, if what you want is to do raids, prepare for example a force with 4 or 5 cavalry regiments, a horse artillery unit and a good cavalry leader and you can destroy some Union railroads to annoy sufficiently. If you also want to blow up some depots, add an infantry regiment to your force.

Good luck! :thumbsup:
[color="Navy"][font="Georgia"]"Mi grandeza no reside en no haber caído nunca, sino en haberme levantado siempre". Napoleón Bonaparte.[/font][/color]



[color="Blue"]Same Land. Different Dreams. - Photobook[/color]



[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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