Besieged

[Longshanks]

The whole business regarding sieges is starting to baffle me.

CASE 1
In my current PBEM game, I had Hooker (active leader) and 2 divisions besieged in N.O. A relief force was attacking Ft. Pike. I had Hooker and the boys use riverine movement to leave N.O., go out to Lake Ponchatrain, and then to Ft. Pike. The game showed these moves on the map to my satisfaction. I was to arrive on Day 12. There was plenty of riverine capacity available. Everyone was in supply. Hooker was active. There were no enemy units in Lake Ponchatrain.

After the turn resolved, Hooker and the boys were still in N.O. The replay showed that they never left.

My guess was that Hooker deactivated. My opponent (OneArmedMexican, whom I recommend you play sometime!) thought the game required me to move into Iberville first in order to use riverine. If so, it's not normally required.

Any suggestions why?

CASE 2.
As the union player I was also besieged in Bowling Green, which was a depot. I owned the river, having a significant presence of gunboats and transports. There were no other enemy units around, other than the besiegers. The nearest supply depots were Louisville and Cairo. Both are more than 5 zones away, IIRC, by river. I also had the railroad to Louisville cleared, operational, and controlled. It's four zones away. I was unable to receive supply for my units or for the depot from any source, including the transports.

My assumption was that the access to the river did me no good becuase of the distance. I thought the transport might assist, but apparently it does nothing for land units. The overland route was no good, even though it ended at a river I controlled. I suppose this means you can't combine supply by both river and rail.

Any other way to read this?

CASE 3.
In yet another battle, this one at Alexandria, my army retreated into Alexandria, allowing my enemy to besiege me. I came out of the town, in defensive mode. Reinforcements were sent via movement and via rail to Alexandria. The next turn we fought and I was retreated into Alexandria, where I was again besieged. Both my opponent and I were puzzled about why my units retreated into a besieged condition after a battle.

Any thoughts?

[OneArmedMexican]

Case 3: Did Whipple's Corps start inside Alexandria (in the replay he is covered by McDowell I cannot tell)? I was under the impression his troops started the turn outside the city. If they started inside it is obvious that a failed/aborted sortie would end with your corps back inside the city. Otherwise this outcome seems impossible.

Case 1: This question would really interest me, too. If you want to get besieged troops out of a city by boat. How does it work: Do they load onto the boats regardless of the besieging force or do they have to enter the region first (meaning they would have to make a sortie) and can only then load onto the river transport?

Thanks for your answers!

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

Case 1: I've used riverine during a siege before. Was the river frozen? Did OAM have a fleet in the Mississippi? Activation shouldn't affect whether they move or not.

Case 2: Not sure exactly.

Case 3: I think OAM answered that one.

[rattler01]

The whole business regarding sieges is starting to baffle me.

CASE 2.
As the union player I was also besieged in Bowling Green, which was a depot. I owned the river, having a significant presence of gunboats and transports. There were no other enemy units around, other than the besiegers. The nearest supply depots were Louisville and Cairo. Both are more than 5 zones away, IIRC, by river. I also had the railroad to Louisville cleared, operational, and controlled. It's four zones away. I was unable to receive supply for my units or for the depot from any source, including the transports.

My assumption was that the access to the river did me no good becuase of the distance. I thought the transport might assist, but apparently it does nothing for land units. The overland route was no good, even though it ended at a river I controlled. I suppose this means you can't combine supply by both river and rail.
Any thoughts?

I pretty sure a town under seige can't receive any supply, Im not sure if they will produce either.

[Ol' Choctaw]

I think it may have to do with the enemy force holding you in place.

I know I tried to leave Richmond and was held there by forces that arrived after the start of the move.

If you look at this thread you will see some similarities: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=21710

I think it may be more of a matter of the enemy forces keeping you pined in place.

[Carrington]

I think it may have to do with the enemy force holding you in place.

I know I tried to leave Richmond and was held there by forces that arrived after the start of the move.

If you look at this thread you will see some similarities: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=21710

I think it may be more of a matter of the enemy forces keeping you pined in place.

I think I've noticed that it's much more reliable to evacuate besieged units on transport ships than via riverine capacity.

Conversely, when transports move to a besieged city, they bring their supply with them.

[Longshanks]

[quote="Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne"]Case 1: I've used riverine during a siege before. Was the river frozen? Did OAM have a fleet in the Mississippi? Activation shouldn't affect whether they move or not.QUOTE]

Nope, not frozen. In N.O.

[Longshanks]

The effects of "pinned troops" was very obvious to me in a recent AI game. McDowell went to F'burg the same turn BOry did. Bory joined the force outside the city. We fought to a draw and at the end of the turn, we were both in the region, and I was surrounded by "red zones."

Tried to fight my way out, no dice: we had repeated combat, I won some, lost some, but they were all close. On the third turn, Bory gave up and moved out, having taken too many losses (more than me). I took F'burg and even managed to keep Manassas in the process, and ended up with a very depleted CSA army.

What a strategy!

Pinned troops seem to be the first cousin to besieged troops in terms of unexpected game behavior. There seem to be so many possible outcomes, depending on this factor or that factor.

[Longshanks]

I think I've noticed that it's much more reliable to evacuate besieged units on transport ships than via riverine capacity.

Conversely, when transports move to a besieged city, they bring their supply with them.

I think you're right. At least it makes sense. Are you saying that moving new transports adjacent to a besieged city means you bring supply for the troops inside? (or just for themselves)

[Ol' Choctaw]

The effects of "pinned troops" was very obvious to me in a recent AI game. McDowell went to F'burg the same turn BOry did. Bory joined the force outside the city. We fought to a draw and at the end of the turn, we were both in the region, and I was surrounded by "red zones."

Tried to fight my way out, no dice: we had repeated combat, I won some, lost some, but they were all close. On the third turn, Bory gave up and moved out, having taken too many losses (more than me). I took F'burg and even managed to keep Manassas in the process, and ended up with a very depleted CSA army.

What a strategy!

Pinned troops seem to be the first cousin to besieged troops in terms of unexpected game behavior. There seem to be so many possible outcomes, depending on this factor or that factor.

I don’t know if you quite understood that the troops were not pinned at the start of my movement but were locked in place and then pinned during the turn and all red around the next turn.

I tried to march onto transports to escape but that froze the game at that point for me. That is when I had to go to alternatives, that wouldn’t do for a PBM game...though I don’t know what you would do if it locked up and couldn’t complete the turn?

Were your troops pinned on the next turn of the siege? That would make it almost the same as what happened to me.

[Mickey3D]

Are you saying that moving new transports adjacent to a besieged city means you bring supply for the troops inside? (or just for themselves)

Move the transport into the city and the besieged troop will benefit from the supply of the transport.

[Longshanks]

As a follow up to this discussion, and hopefully a helpful tip to newer players like me, I recently moved a stack of infantry and a supply unit which was on a fleet by targeting the little harbor part of the city, which was besieged at the time. This enabled the units to go directly into the city and avoid combat outside the walls. Of course, the new units are also besieged now, but I doubled the PWR of my force, and so when the walls come down, I'm still gonna be a handful.