help with corps and division formation

[cmstea0]

hey all, i'm having trouble forming corps and divisions in the new 1.14 patch. i fired up the April 1861 ACW full campaign, and i can't seem to form ANY divisions or corps out of any units. as a result, the army of northern virginia constantly gets beaten because all my units are deactivated or over the command limit. the union doesn't seem to have this problem.

is there a restriction that prevents formation of these types in the first few months as CSA?

thanks
c

[soloswolf]

hey all, i'm having trouble forming corps and divisions in the new 1.14 patch. i fired up the April 1861 ACW full campaign, and i can't seem to form ANY divisions or corps out of any units. as a result, the army of northern virginia constantly gets beaten because all my units are deactivated or over the command limit. the union doesn't seem to have this problem.

is there a restriction that prevents formation of these types in the first few months as CSA?

thanks
c

It is for both sides.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[cmstea0]

cool, thanks for the heads-up. any of you CSA players have advice on how to handle northern VA during those first few months? i tried breaking up the army of northern VA and attempting to minimize my command penalty, but the US would send HUGE stacks of troops at me and crush all my brigades.

[enf91]

I don't play the CSA that often, but my advice would be:
1. Find good defensive ground (like behind the Rappahannock)
2. Get there a few turns before the USA (to entrench)
3. Pack lots of artillery (particularly 12 lb guns for a defensive effort).

[cmstea0]

: D the ANV and shenandoah force always seem to be locked right up until the point where the union army comes bearing down on them. i assume the amount of time they are locked is fixed. is there a way to unlock them quicker?

thanks to everyone for the quick replies.

[Colonel Dreux]

: D the ANV and shenandoah force always seem to be locked right up until the point where the union army comes bearing down on them. i assume the amount of time they are locked is fixed. is there a way to unlock them quicker?

thanks to everyone for the quick replies.

The same things happens when I play. The Union can come out of the starting blocks a bit earlier than you can. There's nothing you can do about it, although I'd love for the AI to wait until you've put an Army in Manassas before they make a move there. The first 1.14 w/Kentucky game I played to see how things worked, the Union sent a force to knock out the militia in the third or fourth turn, which was one or two turns before the unlocking event happened.

Normally playing the April Campaign means Bull Run doesn't happen. They normally occupy Manassas or maneuver around it, attacking either your forces in Winchester and Strasburg, making a run for Richmond, or doing both.

[Colonel Dreux]

cool, thanks for the heads-up. any of you CSA players have advice on how to handle northern VA during those first few months? i tried breaking up the army of northern VA and attempting to minimize my command penalty, but the US would send HUGE stacks of troops at me and crush all my brigades.

Definitely stack your troops, don't worry about the command penalty. You should be able to fight off the union efforts in the summer of 1861. You can keep the Shenandoah force in the Shenandoah and try to hold on to Strasburg. They might force you into tactically retreating from there, but that will keep them (normally) from going any further than Strasburg if you're army is in the adjacent region (the valley region to the east of Strasburg -- thin strip of land).

Normally you can't remain in the Valley if they bring the Army of Northeastern Virginia (depends on the level of play I guess). However, if Winchester and Harpers Ferry are lightly defended which they sometimes are, they're easy to take

You can also leave the Valley and join up with Beauregard at Fredricksburg and make a stand there. If you force is big enough, they tend to hold back from trying to flank your right. However sometimes they follow Grants 1864 strategy and keep turning your right until they're right outside Richmond.

You could also put one force in the Culpeper region and one in the Fredricksburg region. However, Fredricksburg is a great place to put troops because you'll always be well supplied and be able to add reins easily since there's a town there.

Single divisions and brigades will also sometimes come out of West Virginia and strike the lower part of the Shenandoah valley. Sometimes they'll make a dash for Charlottesville. And sometimes they come up out of North Carolina or even Norfolk or Fort. Monroe. Normally this stuff happens in 1862 though and with more forces.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Colonel Dreux]

Fixing this behavior involves some heavy duty AI adjustments/playtesting/more adjusting/more playtesting time, which needs to be done by someone who not only understands how to program new interdependant events using the AI.ChgLocalInterest event command, but also has the time to stay focused on it without other distractions. This is why I have not been able to start on it myself yet. FYI, just recently Pocus provided additional internal game data dump files that are placed in the ...ACW/Logs/AI... folder during gameplay. The first column of those datadump files is named AISelfVal, which is the value (from the turn before) that the AI places on a particular region. The AI.ChgLocalInterest event command mentioned above is the way to specifically alter those values and thereby influence the AI behavior.

Admittedly, this reply would usually be posted in the "Modding AGEod Engine Games" threads, but this AI behavior subject comes up so frequently in the normal threads here that I'm posting the information here in the hope that someone will take the ball and run with it since I'm overwhelmed with other game issues.

I understand. As is is quite fine. With no activation on or set to a low level normally you have time to move the AoP or SF to Manassas. Sometimes they're moving into it when you are as well and you do end up experiencing a Bull Run of sorts. It's hard to get any game playing exactly like the Civil War was fought or panned out.

The truth is Manassas wasn't a defensible line and the game more or less plays that way.

Perhaps a historically accurate thing to do would be to start out the game with parts of the AoP at Manassas and other parts in Richmond. That way you get the effect of having Beauregard having entrenched around Centreville and then having moved back behind Bull Run, and fresh units being brought up from Richmond.

[Franciscus]

cool, thanks for the heads-up. any of you CSA players have advice on how to handle northern VA during those first few months? i tried breaking up the army of northern VA and attempting to minimize my command penalty, but the US would send HUGE stacks of troops at me and crush all my brigades.

You have already received some fine pieces of advice, let me also offer some, although I do not claim to be a great strategist...
First, indeed the Shenandoah force and the AoP are locked until a fixed date or if attacked first.
Secondly, recent changes have indeed made life a bit harder to the CSA. The prohibition to form divisions and corps affects both you and the AI, of course, and you WILL have to fight with CP penalties. Do not divide your forces just to reduce those penalties. Northern forces will also have the same penalties and their generals have worse stats and more often than not, at least in the beginning of the game, will be inactivated more frequently that yours. One thing that I usually do, whatever, although I dislike a bit the "unhistoricity" of it, is to remove Johnston from the Shenandoah (either transferring him to the west or to another Virginia theater stack), and keeping Jackson in command. His stats are simply better as a force commander. Then, move as soon as possible available forces to a couple of important points - Fredericksburg for a good defensible point, Manassas because of the depot (and for sentimental reasons...:wacko . If you manage to capture Harper's Ferry early on, fine, because even if you later loose it, it will probably delay a significant part of the northern forces while they try to recapture it. Unfortunately also, the AI tends to leave Alexandria lightly defended. A relative small force can usually capture it and either destroy the depot or force the enemy to retrace it's steps. Charleston force, as soon as Fort Sumpter is captured, should be rushed to Virginia (this is more difficult in the new "Kentucky" scenarios, due to the late entrance of North Carolina in the war), and Huger's and Magruder's forces should be used also. Use available generals to command even small stacks, to improve their capabilities. Keep at least 10% available replacements for your line infantry and field artillery, and raise Virginia militia and brigades (the large Virginia brigades are almost as strong as a division :coeurs

Remember that your generals are better, and you should take advantage of an aggressive defensive strategy. Let the northern forces attack good entrenched positions. Do not use the defend at all costs option unless you really mean it. Better to retreat with intact forces, for example in the Shenandoah, and then flank your enemy than risk destruction. Be creative. Pin down the main enemy force with your AoP and then hit them in the flank with Jackson.

If indeed the battle comes to the gates of Richmond, it can even be a good thing. If your entrenched forces hold, Lee may get an early activation . That happened to me in my latest CSA campaign. I then rushed Jackson to Richmond and the entire McDowell's army was simply wiped.

Finally, do not mind losing a few times. I love to get beated by a good AI and this is part of the beauty of this game

[Colonel Dreux]

You have already received some fine pieces of advice, let me also offer some, although I do not claim to be a great strategist...
First, indeed the Shenandoah force and the AoP are locked until a fixed date or if attacked first.
Secondly, recent changes have indeed made life a bit harder to the CSA. The prohibition to form divisions and corps affects both you and the AI, of course, and you WILL have to fight with CP penalties. Do not divide your forces just to reduce those penalties. Northern forces will also have the same penalties and their generals have worse stats and more often than not, at least in the beginning of the game, will be inactivated more frequently that yours. One thing that I usually do, whatever, although I dislike a bit the "unhistoricity" of it, is to remove Johnston from the Shenandoah (either transferring him to the west or to another Virginia theater stack), and keeping Jackson in command. His stats are simply better as a force commander. Then, move as soon as possible available forces to a couple of important points - Fredericksburg for a good defensible point, Manassas because of the depot (and for sentimental reasons...:wacko . If you manage to capture Harper's Ferry early on, fine, because even if you later loose it, it will probably delay a significant part of the northern forces while they try to recapture it. Unfortunately also, the AI tends to leave Alexandria lightly defended. A relative small force can usually capture it and either destroy the depot or force the enemy to retrace it's steps. Charleston force, as soon as Fort Sumpter is captured, should be rushed to Virginia (this is more difficult in the new "Kentucky" scenarios, due to the late entrance of North Carolina in the war), and Huger's and Magruder's forces should be used also. Use available generals to command even small stacks, to improve their capabilities. Keep at least 10% available replacements for your line infantry and field artillery, and raise Virginia militia and brigades (the large Virginia brigades are almost as strong as a division :coeurs

Remember that your generals are better, and you should take advantage of an aggressive defensive strategy. Let the northern forces attack good entrenched positions. Do not use the defend at all costs option unless you really mean it. Better to retreat with intact forces, for example in the Shenandoah, and then flank your enemy than risk destruction. Be creative. Pin down the main enemy force with your AoP and then hit them in the flank with Jackson.

If indeed the battle comes to the gates of Richmond, it can even be a good thing. If your entrenched forces hold, Lee may get an early activation . That happened to me in my latest CSA campaign. I then rushed Jackson to Richmond and the entire McDowell's army was simply wiped.

Finally, do not mind losing a few times. I love to get beated by a good AI and this is part of the beauty of this game

Yeah, I forgot to mention that it is sometimes a good thing to let them come deep into Virginia. I was only thinking about the early days of the campaign, I guess. Often the Union will get stuck, remain isolated a few turns, and you'll be able to annihilate them. That is normally how I win the game. You kill off enough of their forces and they get demoralized and their NM drops down 5 pts a turn and you win by late 1863/early 1864.

[cmstea0]

well i tried to follow everyone's advice. mclean's [?] army came up from the sea and hit richmond, and a separate union army moved southwest from harper's ferry and burned the shenandoah and headed south towards NC before turning to link up with the union army besieging richmond. in late 1861 i cornered mclean's army in richmond and destroyed it, then lee activated right as an army HQ finished construction in late winter 1861, and i moved him south to face the second union army, and won a decisive victory (12,000 vs. 1000 casualties). it was a close call. had to mvoe the CSA capitol to atlanta.

as a result, it's late april, the CSA armies in virginia are depleted, and the union is massing huge numbers of troops in DC. sounds about right, i guess.

a good game!

[Franciscus]

a good game!

Yes, I think I can agree with you on that

And remember, in real history, and in the Virginia theatre, things could very easily turned very bad for the south in 61/62. Manassas was a blundering engagement, that the north could have won, and the Seven Days were literally fought on the doorsteps of Davis house .

To clarify, every advice I tried to give is indeed specific to the early game, but some concepts are applicable later on, of course.
The "problem", really, is that if you can manage the first months through middle 1862, then it usually then becomes much easier to bring the war North and even eventually to capture Washington relatively easy, if you have a strong Lee led army, with Corps led by Jackson, Longstreet and another good general (one of the Hills will do), because the AI often times is not very good defending the capital. In the western theatre it is even easier, usually, to capture all of Kentucky, by 1863. But the overall AI game has steadily improved, defensively and offensively. I am seeing very often even a couple of amphibious invasions with relatively significant forces, which was very rare in the game when I first started to play it.