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Jim-NC
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Experience

Thu May 14, 2009 2:44 am

Are you experienced? Do you find yourself asking what does it do for me? Well wonder no longer. By sheer force of will, I have beaten Athena into submission (for several game years), and have come up with the following information.

When a unit becomes experienced (read gets starts), the following benefits accrue:

1. Your offensive or defensive fire rating goes up
2. Your offensive or defensive leader bonus goes up (if general)
3. Your initiative and discipline go up
4. Your patrol or evade goes up
5. Your police goes up
6. Your assault goes up

And
[SIZE="3"][color="DarkOrange"]Drum Roll Please[/color][/size]
Your rate of fire may increase. Pretty cool huh?

Let me show you some information I have gathered.

On the screen shot below, you will see 2 different regular infantry units. The one on the right is at no stars (or levels), and the one on the left has lots of stars (levels). Please ignore the cohesion, as these are from 2 different games at 2 different times. Note the different values for the various data points.

[ATTACH]7761[/ATTACH]

Isn't that great? But wait there's more.
Attachments
inf xp levels.JPG
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Jim-NC
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More infomation

Thu May 14, 2009 2:51 am

Well, now that I have perked your interest. Here is more information. When you go up a level, your stats change by the following values.

Odd level (or odd stars) - +1 Offensive fire, + 1 Evade, +1 Police, +1 Assault
Even level (or even starts) - +1 Defensive fire, +1 Initiative, +1 Discipline, +1 Patrol
At 5th level (or starts) + 1 to Rate of fire. You will see from the below shots what I mean.

Infantry and Elite Infantry
[ATTACH]7762[/ATTACH]

Generals
[ATTACH]7763[/ATTACH]

Artillery (only 2 types - Columbiad and 12lbers) :(
[ATTACH]7766[/ATTACH]

This even applies to ships! I have attached ironclads to let you see what they can do as well (although the data is not as good).
[ATTACH]7764[/ATTACH]

And last, but not least, the orginal file for your viewing pleasure.
[ATTACH]7765[/ATTACH]
Attachments
Artillery.jpg

[The extension xls has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

Ironclad.jpg
Generals.jpg
Infantry.jpg
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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Jim-NC
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Notes

Thu May 14, 2009 3:02 am

A few odds and ends I have discovered:

1. Apparently, replacements do lower your xp value (there must be some formula to determine this). But this generally does not lower your stars (or level if you prefer). But if you are high enough, it will lower your experience slightly).

2. It is very tough to get to 4 or more stars for most units (I had to play until 1866!!!! to see a 6 star infantry or elite infantry). See above.

3. You can go above 9 stars (that is all that shows in the game). I had a general at 11th level.

4. Generals seem to max out at 7 bonus. I had General Magruder (3-2-3) at 11th level. He should have had a 9 for defensive bonus, but was showing 3-7-7 (when not a corps commander attached to Lee). When attached to an Army, the stats can show higher than 7.

5. When promoted, your general sometimes loses experience points, and stars. I do not have enough data about that, but I have seen times when a general has lost stars from a promotion. I am unsure about when or why this happens, but want to check it out later.

6. Cohesion goes up with level, but also with NM. The +5 bonus (for having good admin/elite unit) is added first, then multiplied by your NM level. I have given the base values in my spreadsheet (modifier of 1.00 - or no bonus/or minuses).

7. The other stats do not seem to change (protection, detection, range, damage).
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Redeemer
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Thu May 14, 2009 3:48 am

One thing I always wondered about is ability levels. Can experience increase them or is there another way to do it?
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arsan
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Thu May 14, 2009 7:23 am

Excellent post! :coeurs:
I don't think abilities levels can increase in game.
They are fixed by design.
Now, when a leader go form 1 to 2 or 3 stars, his new model can present different statistics and abilities (for the good or for the bad) to represent his historical behaviour.
But again, this id also something fixed on the scenario design, not something that can dynamically improved in game... at least for what i know! :)
Regards!

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Banks6060
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Thu May 14, 2009 1:00 pm

This is really great stuff Jim :thumbsup:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Have you ever stopped to think and forgot to start??

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Jim-NC
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Thu May 14, 2009 5:36 pm

Redeemer wrote:One thing I always wondered about is ability levels. Can experience increase them or is there another way to do it?


Sometimes, an ability can increase with experience. For example, Huger can get the level 2 artillery (he starts with a 1). I am not sure which abilities can increase/decrease.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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husky1943
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Thu May 14, 2009 5:55 pm

Jim, seriously - thanks for a great post. In fact, I learned a lot from this one. Question/observation: I saw that the unit in question on the right was not at full strength, while it was at full strength on the left. Could it be that the numbers were also effected, not only by experience, but also because it was weakened by not being at full strength?

Second question: Does the above question make sense?
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Ciao for now
Rob

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Jim-NC
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Thu May 14, 2009 6:07 pm

No, the level of damage does not affect the highlighted numbers. All units with 0 stars (level 0) have the same stats that are the same type (for example look at any Line Infantry, and you will see the same stats as the unit on the right).
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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husky1943
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Thu May 14, 2009 8:03 pm

got it. Makes sense.
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Ciao for now

Rob

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W.Barksdale
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Fri May 15, 2009 12:23 am

Great analysis!
"Tell General Lee that if he wants a bridge of dead Yankees I can furnish him with one."
-General William Barksdale at Fredericksburg

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Jim-NC
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Fri May 15, 2009 2:46 am

I mentioned above about Huger's ability increase (the artillerest). See the screen shot below. At 1 star (1 level) but as a 2 star general he is 1st level artillerist. At 3 stars (3rd level) he now is a 2nd level artillerist. I realize that the the above wording is a bit confusing, but bear with me. Check out the green circle vs. the red circle.

[ATTACH]7787[/ATTACH]
Attachments
Huger's ability.JPG
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Jim-NC
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Fri May 15, 2009 2:55 am

My belief is that any ability that has a number next to it can be improved with experience. This would include "Training Officer", "Good Commander", "Entrencher", "Engineer", "Strategist", "Training Master", "Militiaman", "Calvaryman". Some of my leaders have level 2 in some of these abilities, but I am unsure if they started that way or gained it. For example, Marse Robert now has Engineer level 2 at 3 stars (I can't remember if he starts that way). Cleburne has Entrencher level 2 at 2 stars (I can't remember what he started at).
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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slimey.rock
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Fri May 15, 2009 4:13 am

I know I've gotten Meade's good commander level up to 6 against Athena. Which gave him a total of like 25 cp.... If only he'd been at the head of an army :love:


Edit - I also noticed from your picture that as Huger gained exp, he gained political value as well. A trait not desirable in a commander like Huger, I'd say.

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Jim-NC
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Fri May 15, 2009 4:24 am

It's also due I think to his seniority (he made it up to 1, but could not be promoted).
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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husky1943
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Fri May 15, 2009 4:01 pm

Jim, again thanks.
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Ciao for now

Rob

SkyWestNM
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Fri May 15, 2009 4:07 pm

Very nice work, Jim. Thanks for sharing! :thumbsup:

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Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne
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Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:04 pm

You're right about being able to go above level 9. Heres what a unit with half a billion xp looks like.

[ATTACH]12196[/ATTACH]

This is from a glitch in one of the early 1.16 beta patches. I stole this from the beta thread but thought it was an interesting thing to look at for this thread as well. That looks like level 1000 or so to me (+500 offensive and defensive fire). That might be the true max level. :cool:
Attachments
1stVirginiaCav.jpg

Baris
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Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:44 pm

Good post by Jim and thanks,

So a two star general but different experience levels(same general) can have different offensive and defensive ratings plus leader ability. This post must be put on top of the thread before I post questions in the forum.. :) glad to find it.

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Gray_Lensman
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Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:32 am

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VigaBrand
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Fri May 17, 2013 7:57 am

Is that actual? I found some units with a star, but they have the same numbers like the one without the star.
Should I upload a screenshot or is there a bug I should know?

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Jim-NC
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Fri May 17, 2013 5:01 pm

I am not sure, I did my tests a while ago, but they should still have the same information. You should have seen a defensive fire increase at least. Make sure you are comparing the same unit type (militia have different stats from regular troops for example). As different troop types have different starting values (conscript vs. Militia vs. Regular).
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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VigaBrand
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Fri May 17, 2013 5:33 pm

Hi,
here is my stat comparison.
The attachment einheitenmfpxg.png is no longer available
Attachments
einheitenmfpxg.png

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Jim-NC
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Fri May 17, 2013 5:48 pm

Oddly enough, the 3 stats you circled were consistent for a 2 star person, not a 1 star. But your offensive, defensive, discipline and initative didn't change.

There are 2 possible explanations:
1 - the values have been changed from when I did my study (It has been almost 4 years, and I believe I was on 1.13 or 1.14 at the time)
2 - The Missouri Defenders was a different base model, and thus started at a different point. This was brought up somewhere else (by Captain Orso I believe). It appears that there are different models of units (having different starting stats) for such things as line infantry (he pointed out that sharp shooters were not the same - even those having no experience). Thus, an element in a pre-build brigade may be different from a lone regiment, or even there may be differences by state.

I can't say which is the case. Also, it was brought up that it's not the stars that give you the increases, but it was the XP (there was a complicated formula, and an academic discussion - this was a while ago). Thus, as the unit is at say 28 XP (which is very close to 2 stars), they would have some scores that had improved to level 2, and some that were still at level 1. This could explain how the 3 circled values are almost at level 2.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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Captain_Orso
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Sat May 18, 2013 12:34 am

Did I hear my name? :blink:

;)

The 1st 'Missouri Defenders' started as a militia unit you purchased or that was allocated as a garrison in a town in Missouri. The Clark's Brigade is a volunteer regiment generated per event and appears in Fayette AR with Price.

CS Militia and Volunteer regiments both start with different but similar models, but both upgrade per random event to the same conscript model and then consequently upgrade to the same first line model.

Jim is correct, the change in traits that you note do not occur per the stars earned, but by the XP. My difficult explanation of how this happens is here: Question about sharpshooters Post#24

The short of it, the stars are mostly decorations. For most attributes of elements the XP's are what's important.

With leaders I think the stars are still important for the level they have on certain abilities.

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