Art99
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A couple questions

Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:12 pm

I am attempting to play the full campaign game with the Union. Why is it that I am not permitted to add units into any of my generals army's ? The manual says to click a button to add units but it is grayed out for every general so there is no way to get men into the armies like the manual says I should be able to do. The manual also says that if you drag a unit directly over a general that it will join his army but this does not work either. The armies near Washington DC are tiny and the confederates just come up and easily defeat them. In the real war there were very large armies defending Washington DC at the beginning so something is not right here when the game starts.

Also many of the smaller units only have a forced march option and on the forced march button it says something like 40% chance but they never will move for me. The weather is fine so they should be able to march but they just sit there far far away from the action and are useless. In real life they would be court marshalled for disobeying orders. To put it simply, if you are not allowed to move troops or put them under the command of generals you can't fight a war very well. Why such basic things don't work or are so complicated to do is baffling.

I am using Windows Vista with the 1.12 patch and am wondering if the game just doesn't work right with Vista maybe ? Or is it just another case of a game being sold to people that is only half way finished once again? Unfortunately I lost my receipt and if it's going to take me a year just to figure out how to play it I'd like to get my money back. I strongly urge the designers to go look at other good war games and see how they are able to do the same things ACW does in a easy to understand manner and incorporate them into this game. Fixing the tutorial in the game would be helpful too. Sorry but I feel I've been completely ripped off with this game which is a shame since it's the only in depth Civil War game I've seen in years and years.

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Clovis
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Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:18 pm

are you in 1861?

If so, some units are locked and can't move until released. Then formation of divisions and now corps are delayed for some months...
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Moff Jerjerrod
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Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:18 pm

Art99 wrote:...Why is it that I am not permitted to add units into any of my generals army's ?....


There are a variety of reasons why units cannot be added to generals. Are you having trouble physically dragging units into generals already existing armies or do you want to add units to a general who is all alone?

Also many of the smaller units only have a forced march option and on the forced march button it says something like 40% chance but they never will move for me.


Are the smaller units not responding to your forced march request because they are "locked units"? Look for the little lock icon in the upper left corner of the unit portrait. Keep in mind that some units at start of scenarios may be locked in place.

I strongly urge the designers to go look at other good war games and see how they are able to do the same things ACW does in a easy to understand manner and incorporate them into this game...Sorry but I feel I've been completely ripped off with this game which is a shame since it's the only in depth Civil War game I've seen in years and years.


It sounds to me that you have some experience with other war games? AACW is definitely not like the other games out there. I would say the concepts in AACW are revolutionary compared to what the standard conventions of other games are. Definitely give this game a chance and don't be afraid to ask questions. There are plenty of good people here who would be happy to help you so don't feel frustrated and definitely don't knock the game until you've got a chance to fully understand it. ;)

Art99
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Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:23 pm

Yes the full campaign scenario begins in April of 1961 . It's the 3rd scenario in the list and called 1861 : The Civil War (April - Full 2 Theatre Campaign).

I'm almost positive the units I want to move are not locked. When you click on a unit there is an area to the left where you give them orders. Many of the small units in the upper northern areas can only move by a forced march. If you take your mouse and put it over the forced march button it will display something like 40% or 50% chance which is what I don't understand. If the units are not locked and the weather is good they should move when I order them to move - not just 40% of the time. As a player you should be able to move unlocked units wherever you want them to go and have them move when you tell them to move. It seems that the game forces the player to do things exactly like they occurred in the real war which is just stupid. I want to do things differently but the game won't let me do anything I want to do.

There are 4 generals at the start for the Union and none of them will let you add any units to them which means the units scattered around the board have no leader and can't really fight well. As a player you should be able to build a large army with a general immediately with troops available nearby (even though that may not of happened in the real war). I just don't understand why the game makes you do everything exactly like it happened in the real war. What's the point of the game if you have to do things exactly like they occurred in the real war. ?

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Clovis
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Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:39 pm

Art99 wrote:Yes the full campaign scenario begins in April of 1961 . It's the 3rd scenario in the list and called 1861 : The Civil War (April - Full 2 Theatre Campaign).

I'm almost positive the units I want to move are not locked. When you click on a unit there is an area to the left where you give them orders. Many of the small units in the upper northern areas can only move by a forced march. If you take your mouse and put it over the forced march button it will display something like 40% or 50% chance which is what I don't understand. If the units are not locked and the weather is good they should move when I order them to move - not just 40% of the time. As a player you should be able to move unlocked units wherever you want them to go and have them move when you tell them to move. It seems that the game forces the player to do things exactly like they occurred in the real war which is just stupid. I want to do things differently but the game won't let me do anything I want to do.

There are 4 generals at the start for the Union and none of them will let you add any units to them which means the units scattered around the board have no leader and can't really fight well. As a player you should be able to build a large army with a general immediately with troops available nearby (even though that may not of happened in the real war). I just don't understand why the game makes you do everything exactly like it happened in the real war. What's the point of the game if you have to do things exactly like they occurred in the real war. ?


If your'e playing US side in the 1st turn of April 1861, all units are locked. period.

Now of course, before trying to understand about a game released in 2007 and played by thousand players without any major bugs since about the same period, you may post AACW to be broken. Your choice. I would somehow urge you to read a little more the forum. There's even a search function.

And if your game pleasure is to get on the first turn a large army to storm Richmond on turn 2 and game over, your choice too. Philosophical one indeed.
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biggp07
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Take some time to learn the game mechanics!!!

Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:42 pm

@Art99

Please take some time to learn the game mechanics by browsing this forum and reading about different things here. There is a wealth of info here if you want it. As you can tell by my post I am new to this game and forum, but each time I come here I find out the answers to the question I had. This is a great game, I have been searching for one like it awhile now. That is if you like strategic turn-based DEEP games. Its not for those needing instant gratification!
As Gray has stated earlier, "You'll need to devote some time and practice to learning the User interface. Basically, with this game, you get out of it what you put into it. It's definitely not your typical kiddie game."

Don't berate the game or its designers until you have a foundation to base it on!

ncuman
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Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:41 pm

Art99,

I can understand your frustration at the game. It is a very complicated game. The problem is that the game is not designed for you to build large armies right away. You won't be able to build up 100,000 men armies until late 1862 at the earliest. But the good side is that your enemy will have small armies too.

You talked some about force marching. The fact is the force marching is not necessary to move units and play the game. In fact many players (like me) rarely if ever force march. Just click and drag the unit to whatever region/city you want it to go and it will move there in however many days it says it will take. Just click the 'Next turn' button and watch it move! All force marching is good for is to make units get places a little faster than regular marching.

I would suggest that you go to the forum section called AAR's. If you go read about the games other people have played, you should get a realistic idea about the pace of the game and get some strategic tips about what works and what doesn't. Also, don't give up! This game is very addicting once you get it all figured out.

Art99
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Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:30 am

I apologize if anyone was insulted by my remarks. I made no criticism or personal attacks to any individual as far as I can tell. After spending 20 hours or more on the game and not being able to figure out much naturally there is a great deal of frustration and from what I see from reading posts in these forums I have a lot of company. I think that when most people see this game at the store they do not understand that it will take a year of their life to be able to figure out how to play it. If they knew that they would probably not buy it and feel as if they wasted their money if they do. Obviously this game was made for a very tiny fraction of the gaming community who eat, drink and sleep Civil War. I have been to several video game review sites recently and most say what I said - that the interface is a problem and gets in the way of playing the game. If developers are serious about selling games and improving them they usually will learn a great deal more from those that make criticisms than those who only offer praise. Again I am not trying to insult anyone but merely trying to offer an honest opinion about what I see. I have played at least a hundred war games so think I have a fair idea of what makes a game work and what doesn't. If you think the game is great and enjoy it that's great but those who spent their hard earned money and don't agree it's great should have a right to express why they don't without others taking personal offense. Below I will make a couple observations about interface and design issues that can easily be improved.

I did manage to figure out a few things since my earlier post. Indeed the units wouldn't move because they were fixed for several turns but my mind was so mushy from information overload that I failed to remember that you had to click on a unit first to see if it is fixed or not. This is not well thought out and having to click on dozens of icons on the map every turn to see if they can move or not is a major time waster. A simple fix would be to put the little lock symbol and a number which represents how many turns until it can move on the unit icon located on the map. This way the player can instantly see who can move and who can't which saves a lot of time not to mention wear and tear on their fingers. I am 52 and have arthritis in my hands so unnecesary clicking is a pet peeve of mine plus I don't like wasting my time on such things. If I am wrong and there is some way to tell a unit is fixed without clicking it first I apologize but I couldn't find any way to do that.

Maybe I'm wrong but from what I can tell the only way to move a unit is to drag and drop. This is fine when the unit and the target are very close to each other but when you are trying to drag a unit from the far west side of the map to the far east side it can be difficult to do and it's quite easy for your finger to come off the left mouse button while scrolling across the map and send it to the wrong place. I'm sure everyone has done this at some point. Most games simply have you left click the unit you want to move and then right click the location where you want it to move to which is much easier to do. I don't understand why this is not implemented.

In my earlier post I mentioned that the 2nd Tutorial : Command and chain was broken and someone in this thread says it was fine and had been tested. Perhaps he has a different version than me but after checking it twice more it is indeed broken. At first it works fine but there is a place where it instructs you to click on General Sherman's stack and then click the next turn button. After you advance to the next turn the window with the tutorial dialogue in it disappears completely and you can't finish the tutorial. I'm using version 1.12 which I believe is the latest patch. If a newer one was issued within the last 48 hours where this has been fixed I apologize but I don't believe this is the case.

One other observation I found amusing. I was playing the full 2 theatre 1861-1863 campaign and after a few turns lost 11 of 12 battles yet my victory point score went from 80 on turn one to over 400 after all these defeats. I did not capture any cities or anything else either and was only playing defense in these battles. Why my score increased after such a terrible outcome is very perplexing.

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Moff Jerjerrod
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Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:49 am

I do understand your concerns with the game and can see where your frustration is coming from. I can offer some tips to make things a little easier for you though.

If you press "e" you will be taken to a land unit. You can then see if it is locked or not by looking for the little lock symbol in the upper left corner of the unit portrait in the unit tray. Keep pressing "e" and you will cycle through all of your available land units. Press "r" to cycle in the reverse direction. The same thing can be done with naval units by pressing "t" and "y" respectively.

If you want to move a unit or stack of units a long distance first click on the stack or unit then scroll the map to where you want to go and drag the tab located just above the stack in the unit tray. Keep in mind there may be several tabs if you have more than one unit or stack that are not in the same group in a location.

I do know from my experience that the tutorials are a little buggy so clicking on a stack and moving them may or may not work. Can't say much more without knowing exactly what happened in your case but I think I ran into the same problem when I tried a tutorial once. I haven't had any problems though in game as far as command and control or moving units around.

Hope this helps.

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Other War games? There are no other war games better designed, researched and implements for their subject matter than AGEOD games. Truly a magnificent simulation. t

Art99
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Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:39 am

OK thanks for explaining about the drag and drop issue I raised. I understand what you mean about how some things are in the engine and to change something is almost impossible without recoding the entire game. I used to do some programming myself about 20 years ago and have never quite understood why they design software today where changing a small section of the game means the entire game needs to be rewritten. It seems rather limiting and impractical but what do i know ?

As for the tutorial - I went back and tried it again and at the place where the dialogue box disappeared on me the other times I waited several seconds before clicking the next turn button as you suggested and the dialogue box disappeared again for a few seconds and then came back this time and the tutorial can be continued so that helps. Thanks for clearing that up - it is a bit quirky though and perhaps mentioning at the beginning of the tutorial that the user should wait several seconds before clicking the next turn button might be helpful to those unaware of this quirk. I have difficulty believing I'm the only person who experienced this problem

You seem like a good group of guys here and obviously a tremendous amount of work has been done on this game. I can see how it can be pretty fun for those who are willing to invest the huge amount of time required to learn it but I think few are that patient. I'm curious how long it took some of you to get to a point where you could play a game competently. One thing which might help new players avoid intense frustration is to increase the number of things which they can control in the options area. Right now I believe the only thing that can be controlled is fog of war but if there was a way to have the game control things like supply lines it would lower the learning curve quite a bit. This way you could just gradually increase the complexity when you're ready for it and still be able to play the game a little without having to worry about hundreds of details best left to an experienced player.

As for me and this game I'm not sure what I'll do. After spending this much time and making so little progress (and 25 hours is a lot for where I am at !) I'm very tempted to shelve it because I just don't have the time or patience for it and I'm usually pretty patient but so far the experience has been less than enjoyable sorry to say. That doesn't mean I think the game is awful or anything and I'm very impressed with the ambitious nature of it. My dilemma with shelving is that I hate to quit something I've put so much time into.

Anyway cheers and a very happy new year to you all.

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Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:00 pm

@Art99

If you like we could play a short scenario (like shiloh) by email. You could ask me your questions and I could have a look at your orders to give you some advices.

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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:40 am

Art99,

It is a very complex game and there are many things that cause me to pull out my hair until I figure out a reason for them. It's not perfect. I think you have to cycle through every unit that is not set to sentinel to find out who is locked and who isn't and its a lot to keep treck of. But I have found the game to be very enjoyable. I have only played the Ai on normal and it took me a while to figure out how to win, but just the small differences I found in how the actual Civile War turned out and how mine ended up (Rosecrans as head of the AotP and doing a fine job? The Union invasion of Galveston? Longstreet takes Pittsburgh?) made the game very fun, if a lot of work. I have played the tutorial three times (yes, its a little buggy and some towns it tells you to move to by RR have no rail) and I've played four scenarios and one Grand Campaign and have enjoyed them all. There is more I need to learn. In my only Grand Campaign I knew very little about supply rules and it hurt me (I may have built two depots overall). I did recreate Sherman's march to the sea, though with Grant in command, Sherman never got above 1 star. And my lack of familiarity with supply rules almost killed me. But searching the forum and the request for feedback(and response) from forum members helped.

It's confusing and fun as hell and I think if I ever master the intricacies of this game I will be qualified to run a Fortune 500 company.

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Gray_Lensman
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:38 am

Uncle John wrote: I think you have to cycle through every unit that is not set to sentinel to find out who is locked and who isn't and its a lot to keep treck of.

Using the E and R keys cycles you through all land stacks that are without orders and aren't on sentry. T and Y does the same for naval stacks.

In my opinion, these keyboard shortcuts arre essential in making the game manageable once you start getting a certain number of troops in the field :)
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cmurphy625
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Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:15 pm

As a newbie player, I just want to say to Art99, do not give up, I'm still feeling my growing pains, but having a blast!.. But if it wasn't for this forum and all the tips/views posted in it, I myself would've probably given up!...

Thanks guys, this game is indeed a winner, and I never would've known, if I didn't find this Forum.

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Uncle John
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Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:21 pm

Rafiki wrote:Using the E and R keys cycles you through all land stacks that are without orders and aren't on sentry. T and Y does the same for naval stacks.

In my opinion, these keyboard shortcuts arre essential in making the game manageable once you start getting a certain number of troops in the field :)



I'm not sure what further development there is in store for the game and believe me, I have had a great time playing thegame, but would it be possible to come up with two keys that cycled through all non-sentry, non-locked stacks? For example, cycling through the navy you always wind up checking on the stack in San Francisco that stays locked all game unless SF is attacked.

I gguess one option would be to put locked units on sentry (can you do that?)

And gray lensman, I thought I did try the tutorial on 1.12 but i will check again, thanks for all the hard work guys.

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Moff Jerjerrod
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Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:43 pm

As far as I know if you press "s" while you have the fleet from San Francisco up it will stop it from showing up in your cycled naval units.

Major Dilemma
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Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:07 am

It took me several hours of trying and retrying to figure out how to make Corps and Divisions. It really should not have been so difficult. Had I known clearly just a few facts about creating these formations it would have saved me many hours of total frustration.

Generals must start uncombined.

All units in the same stack must be able to act. There are two different kinds of unactionable units, those with the lock symbol on them and those which when hoverng your mouse over them say they will not leave the region. If any of these units are in your stack the formation will not be allowed so move your general out of the stack and once alone he can be assigned the new formation.

It is a quirk with this game that those units which will not leave the region they are in can somehow prevent such organizational formation actions if they are in the same stack. So then they must be identified and excluded from your active stacks. Look for those units with lock symbols and remove them and also hover your mouse over each unit and ensure it does not have the (will not leave the region) status..

Generals must not be combined with any brigade, in other words if your general has a silver line across the bottom of his pic he is combined with a brigade. Uncombine him and then he can be assigned the status of a division or corps commander. Once you assign division status to a general he must combine with at least one unit or he will lose his status as a division commander the following turn.

Also, if you are assigning corps commander status to a general that general must be at least two stars and be the highest ranking general in his stack and be located within the range of the army commander's area of influence.

Hope this helps.

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arsan
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Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:15 am

Uncle John wrote:I'm not sure what further development there is in store for the game and believe me, I have had a great time playing thegame, but would it be possible to come up with two keys that cycled through all non-sentry, non-locked stacks? For example, cycling through the navy you always wind up checking on the stack in San Francisco that stays locked all game unless SF is attacked.

I gguess one option would be to put locked units on sentry (can you do that?)

And gray lensman, I thought I did try the tutorial on 1.12 but i will check again, thanks for all the hard work guys.


Check the shortcut key list at the end of the manual. Very usuful! :thumbsup:
Oh, and don't forget to check also the readme to know about bunch of new cool shorcut keys added on the latest patches.
Oh, and... Happy new year for everybody!! :D

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