Naval usage

[jeff b]

What is the best way to use your naval assets. I am in the middle of my first game and have had less than satisfactory results with my naval power.

I built up a fleet of 8 monitors, and tried to send them to Georgetown SC to assist in an assualt on the place. By the time they got there they were so shot up they were useless. I figured out that I should have put them on avoid combat, and sent them back to NY for refit. Unfortunately, on the return trip they still were so badly shot up I lost them all. What is the best way to use monitors? How many does it take? Should I use steam Frigates instead?

In riverine warfare I haven't had much better results. Granted I haven't lost them all, but still have managed to accomplish much. Foote's force of gunboats doesn't seem to prevent the CSA from running transports past him to raid the North. I have also tried to chase down CSA transports with river ironclads, but no luck. Also I haven't done well at blocking river crossings.

I want to do something like the Ft Henry attack, but after my experience with the monitors I'm reluctant to do anything. The south still holds Island #10, and I want to use river ironclads to batter the place, while simultaneously landing a division. How many ironclads do i need. and will this just get my division whacked?

When a river zone says you need X elements to block a zone - is 1 ship an element?

Finally how exactly do you do a brown water blockade? What are the best ships to do this?

[runyan99]

When a river zone says you need X elements to block a zone - is 1 ship an element?

Finally how exactly do you do a brown water blockade? What are the best ships to do this?

Naval operations is one area I have not yet tackled in the 101 thread. For now, here are a few tips.

One ship is one element. In my opinion the brown water blockade is not worth your time, because the Confederacy can still get all the war supplies they need, and the blockade requirements are very high.

Ironclads are good for fighting the enemy's ships, but that is all. They can help you control the rivers and clear them of enemy ships. Forts are not to be bypassed or bombarded by naval units, but need to be taken by land forces.

[jeff b]

Naval operations is one area I have not yet tackled in the 101 thread. For now, here are a few tips.

One ship is one element. In my opinion the brown water blockade is not worth your time, because the Confederacy can still get all the war supplies they need, and the blockade requirements are very high.

Ironclads are good for fighting the enemy's ships, but that is all. They can help you control the rivers and clear them of enemy ships. Forts are not to be bypassed or bombarded by naval units, but need to be taken by land forces.

Am I reading this right, to take on an enemy fort I should use gunboats, but to keep him from running up and down the rivers I should park my ironclads in a river zone?

[runyan99]

Use your ironclads to fight enemy ships. Wooden gunboats are most useful in my opinion to blockade rivers for the purpose of blocking the movements of enemy land forces. Do not use ironclads or ships to bombard a fort. The fort will get all the best of it. Land forces must take the forts to clear the way for naval forces to move.

[jeff b]

Use your ironclads to fight enemy ships. Wooden gunboats are most useful in my opinion to blockade rivers for the purpose of blocking the movements of enemy land forces. Do not use ironclads or ships to bombard a fort. The fort will get all the best of it. Land forces must take the forts to clear the way for naval forces to move.

As a former swabbie I can't help but think "Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead!" (For the non-US audience. Adm. Farragut at Mobile Bay) I know the Navy used their ironclads in multiple engagements against land positions. Some successful - Ft Henry, some not. In game terms there should be some use for Naval support of land missions.

A quick perusal of the Navy historical center http://www.history.navy.mil/wars/civilwar.htm page, you can see a number of occurences where forts surrendered to Naval and Combined arms attacks. You can also see several attacks that failed.

[runyan99]

There have been numerous discussions in these forums about the interactions of riverine forces and land forces in forts. You can search for them if you are so inclined, but when the game was first released gunboats were slapping Iwo Jima styled bombardments on land units.

At the moment, the forts have supremacy in the game.

[jeff b]

I understand the limits of what can be represented in game terms. I agree gunboats should not be doing Iwo. On the other hand, I can't help but wish for a greater role for the Naval Service.

If you do an amphibious attack do the Naval Units count toward the battle? Perhaps some benefit to your attack when Naval support is present.

I think it is impossible in this game to model the actions at Mobile and New Orleans where the Navy pretty much took those important cities.

[Jagger]

Jeff, if you go to your settings folder and mod the Bombard&Blockade file to the following values, you will find naval forces a bit more useful.

bloAdjFriendlyFort = -2 // brown water blockade, bonus given by adjacent fort
bloAdjEnemyFort = 2 // same, for an enemy fort (malus)
bloMinSUToBlockade = 4 // Nb of SoL elements needed or pts given by a fort to blockade a zone
bmbHitCoeffLand = 5 // coefficient (in hundredth)to land efficiency for bombard
bmbHitCoeffNav = 15 // coefficient (in hundredth)to ship efficiency for bombard
bmbMaxHitsDoneByLand = 25 // How many hit points can be done by Land units against a fleet
bmbMaxHitsDoneByNav = 25 // the reverse
bmbMinEntrenchLevel = 5 // Minimum level to reach by an artillery so that it can bombards or interdict ships& water supply

Your ironclads are your fighting forces on rivers. The gunboats are your scouts, escorts and blockading units on the rivers.

Personally, I think the blockading requirements are too high to make blockades useful currently. With the above changes, historical numbers of ships can blockade making it worth the time and money to pursue a naval strategy.

[jeff b]

Jeff, if you go to your settings folder and mod the Bombard&Blockade file to the following values, you will find naval forces a bit more useful.

bloAdjFriendlyFort = -2 // brown water blockade, bonus given by adjacent fort
bloAdjEnemyFort = 2 // same, for an enemy fort (malus)
bloMinSUToBlockade = 4 // Nb of SoL elements needed or pts given by a fort to blockade a zone
bmbHitCoeffLand = 5 // coefficient (in hundredth)to land efficiency for bombard
bmbHitCoeffNav = 15 // coefficient (in hundredth)to ship efficiency for bombard
bmbMaxHitsDoneByLand = 25 // How many hit points can be done by Land units against a fleet
bmbMaxHitsDoneByNav = 25 // the reverse
bmbMinEntrenchLevel = 5 // Minimum level to reach by an artillery so that it can bombards or interdict ships& water supply
.

Thanks! Can I do this with a game in play?

Your ironclads are your fighting forces on rivers. The gunboats are your scouts, escorts and blockading units on the rivers.

Personally, I think the blockading requirements are too high to make blockades useful currently. With the above changes, historical numbers of ships can blockade making it worth the time and money to pursue a naval strategy.

I have a good understanding of Naval Operations in the civil war, but based on the reply I was beginning to think the game had modeled things a bit differently. So even though if historically river ironclads (think Carrondolet) and monitors were used against Forts, it doesn't mean the game does.

I don't have an intimate knowledge of the internals to this game, and based on other companies products I am never surprised at what you might get.

From the results I have been getting in trying to pursue a historical naval strategy I am inclined to agree with you concerning Naval forces. I think Naval Strategy is one area where a game like this allows you to explore an alternative strategy, but one that would not be a-historical. A more agressive combined operations strategy was definitely possible and could have been given greater priority. There were definitely several examples of it during the war.

[Jagger]

Thanks! Can I do this with a game in play?

Yes, the change will only impact future battles.

have a good understanding of Naval Operations in the civil war, but based on the reply I was beginning to think the game had modeled things a bit differently. So even though if historically river ironclads (think Carrondolet) and monitors were used against Forts, it doesn't mean the game does.

I don't have an intimate knowledge of the internals to this game, and based on other companies products I am never surprised at what you might get.

From the results I have been getting in trying to pursue a historical naval strategy I am inclined to agree with you concerning Naval forces. I think Naval Strategy is one area where a game like this allows you to explore an alternative strategy, but one that would not be a-historical. A more agressive combined operations strategy was definitely possible and could have been given greater priority. There were definitely several examples of it during the war.

The changes in the bombard/blockade file should significantly help in implementing a historical naval strategy.

Against the AI, amphibious actions are very doable, effective and relatively risk free. Against a human player, amphibious ops are doable and effective but very, very risky. See my AAR for examples.

[Le Ricain]

Also, naval units (although not gunboats or transports) can be used to assist ground units. Clicking on bombard will cause the naval units to support land units when attacked or attacking. I would not use them for assaults on forts.