How do you get guys promotable?

[DDLAfan]

In my PBEM as the union, it's summer of 1863, and I'm still fighting the war with McCllelan and McDowell as my two army commanders. Milroy and Hamilton are still corp commanders. And, all the good one-star generals like Hooker, Sedgewick, Reynolds, etc have not even been promotable, even though a number of battles have by fought in which they were engaged (some I won, some I lost). The only guy in the east who became promotable after a battle was Darius Couch.

So my question is: What EXACTLY are the conditions under which a general is eligible for promotion? Do I need to fling my guys forward regardless of losses in hopes that the computer makes these generals promotable?

Anyway, someone give me advice on this as I need decent army and corp commanders in the east NOW. The British and French entered the war in 1862, and I certainly cannot be successful against Lee with those two boobs McClellan and McDowell.

(Note: I've resisted sending Grant or Sherman to the East, as I'm a huge Civil War buff and I'm trying to use the leaders that were historically available in that region).

Thanks and have a nice day!

[Banks6060]

There have been a few issues with the speed at which generals are "congratulated" and subsequently made available for promotion in this game. Really, you just have to get the generals you want promoted into action as fast as possible.

Interesting thing about Union generals that isn't portrayed in the game very well, perhaps because it's impossible...is the political appointment of generals. It happened on both sides...but A TON on the north.

[DDLAfan]

Thanks for the reply.

Ah, the good ole catch 22! So, I need to get my guys into action as soon as possible. Okay. The thing is though, how often can I do that when McCllelan rarely activates. When he does, I usually do attack. But he activates so infrequently that most of the time he just sites there doing nothing.

I guess I could attack wtih a deactivated McCllelan, but with the huge negative modifiers that entails when attacking into enemy territory...and the huge losses this game engine deals out when you attack at a disadvantage..I have tried attacking Lee at Manassas with McCllelan using feint/probe, so that my boys can get some action yet not get too chewed up. Thing is in that one round I lost like 40,000 men to the rebel 13,000, it really made me gun shy in attacking Lee when he is dug in.

Like I originally said I'm a huge civil war buff but this is my first PBEM playing this game. So if some of you veteran ACW guys can chime in and give me so advice, it would be much appreciated.

[Franciscus]

For your generals to become promotable, they must be congratulated, and for that they must be involved leading men in victorious battles (specially if major victories).
One way of bypassing the "unactivated McClellan" thing is to create "adhoc" commands with activated divisions and loose generals, to diminish command penaltes, and use these to fight. Not very hsitorical, maybe a little gamey. Nevertheless, this tactic is probably more useful in the first year of the war. If you are already facing Lee (and the british and french ) you are really in a "tight spot"

Regards

[Jabberwock]

The last thing you want at this point is to actually fight using McC, activated or not. If you lose, you lose. If you manage to win somehow, you still lose, because as the stack commander, he just got the big seniority boost, using up somebody else's opportunity (Meade, Hancock, Reynolds, Hooker, etc.). Put McC two regions behind your front line if you still need him as army commander, but don't give him troops (except for training - if you still need to do that), or an opportunity to march into battle.

[ncuman]

I think there is something wrong with the "congratulation" parameters in the game. I am playing a game right now that started in April '61. Jackson was a corps commander and Longstreet was one of Jackson's division commanders. Well after a few battles two of Jackson's division commanders became promotable. But was Longstreet one of them? Nope. Magruder and E.K. Smith got that honor. In fact, Longstreet has yet to be congratulated for any battle he has been involved in. Very fishy. Only explanation I have is that out of coincidence he didn't have any artillery attached to his command but Magruder and E.K. Smith did. Still shouldn't matter in my opinion because his division had the highest combat power of any division in Jackson's corps. Plus Longstreet is a better general than either Magruder or E.K. Smith so on average he ought to do better in battle than either of them. So I am not sure how the computer decides who to congratulate after a battle but it seems off to me. Almost more random than anything else.

[DDLAfan]

Yes it's very frustrating.

It's late 1863 now and I've tried to follow the advice of the previous posts ie move McC and McD two regions away, and fight with my underlings. It still isn't working.

Not only is it not working, its very un-historical. Guys like Hancock, Reynolds, Sedgwick etc made their reputations and were promoted based on battlefield performance, even though the actual battles were DEFEATS. It took the first two years of the war to go through the process of weeding out the incompetents (generally speaking), and finding the guys who had the ability to lead at corp command.

If it is true that you have to WIN battles in order for guys to have a chance for promotion, then that is just flat wrong. It's also not very satisfying, as I'm trying to see how I can do with the leaders dealt to me historically, rather then send McCllelan to Upper New York just because his stats suck. I won't play it gamey...but I'm also getting tired of having the same Army and Corp commanders from 1861 even though both sides have suffered nearly 300,000 in casualties. You would think some of those young division commanders would have proven themselves by now, and at the same time guys like Hamilton and Milroy would have proved that they are only fit to fight Indians back west.

Anyway I was really hoping that someone from AGEOD or who knows the formula for getting guys promoted would have shown up on this thread. Oh well, I guess it's up to McDowell to beat down Lee (fat chance).

[Banks6060]

I'll just chime in again here. The thing about the east is...well you're pretty much screwed...BUT....here's one thing you can try in the future as the Yanks. and put this on your secret list .

Historically...what earned Burnside his promotion??

His coastal campaign in North Carolina. You have to get commanders in a position to win right?? Well...take your two or three best division commanders....send them on little "errands" on the coast and voila...a few victories against understrength fort garrisons and you should have yourself at LEAST one or two good 2-star generals.

NOW....if you really want to get gamey....you can plop them into Grant's army and leave the coast up to some lesser division commanders....but I would probably just bring them back to Washington to take over as Corps commanders. You must also remember....there were quite a few of the Union commanders that distinguished themselves during the "7-days" campaign...in which nearly EVERY engagement was, according to how the game engine would probably look at it, a Confederate loss.

I've YET to see any PBEM opponent of mine try what McClellan did historically. It almost worked historically, and it could probably come close in the game. Thinking back on it....it was actually quite a brilliant plan. In game terms...you'd free up Northern Virginia for a more able Corps commander to wreak havoc .

Perhaps taking Little Mac's army as far south as a landing at Norfolk. While most of this would require Mac to be active...even INACTIVE...his 120,000 man bohemoth of an army would have no problem with a small garrison at Norfolk.

Believe me...you can find ways to win...even with McClellan.

[Eugene Carr]

I think its not enough to win you have to eliminate enemy units.
I think that there needs to be more event based promotions ie generals have a chance of promotion after their historical promotion date. People like David Hunter need to be given a chance!

[bobkatfan]

with me they basically just have to do something pretty decent. like one of my generals gained promotion by having high seniority and capturing St. Louis, and Stonewall was promoted for capturing alexandria.

[GShock]

The war is long...promote the guys you need and don't promote the guys you don't need...regardless of consequences the NM hit can be recovered with consistent victory on the battlefield...which, leads to others' promotions.

[TheDoctorKing]

I think the complaint is that the system won't let you promote the people you want. I have had this problem too, and the solution is clearly the detached command. Send Burnside, Meade, Hooker, etc. off to West Virginia or Norfolk or what have you and let McClellan and the unpromotable 3-1-1's hold northern Virginia.

[ncuman]

[quote="TheDoctorKing"]I think the complaint is that the system won't let you promote the people you want. I have had this problem too, and the solution is clearly the detached command. \QUOTE]

It is a temporary, kind of gamey solution. But I think really all that is is treating the symptoms, and not the underlying problem. and that the formula the computer uses to determine who if anyone gets congatulated is off. To me the solution would be to assign a probability factor, with highly rated generals having a high probability of getting congratulated after a battle and a low rated general having a low probability of getting congratulated. Now once in a while, a bad general will be congratulated, but that is ok because even a bad general will have a good day once in a while. Nonetheless, over time the "cream will rise to the top" so to speak and become your corps commanders and army commanders. Not a perfect system, but better than what we have right now I think. Also, I am not a programmer, so for all I know it will be a major undertaking to change.

[Pocus]

You earn a seniority point when the troops under your command deal more hits than they suffer. Pretty straightforward, perhaps too, but it has its logic.

[ncuman]

You earn a seniority point when the troops under your command deal more hits than they suffer. Pretty straightforward, perhaps too, but it has its logic.

Yes. Very straightforward and logical. What I am complaining about when a corp wins a battle. Naturally the corps commander is congratulated (makes sense) but also often one or two of the division commanders are congratulated as well. How does the computer determine which if any of the division commanders get congratulated? Right now it seems to be random. The whole probability idea I had was for determining which of the division commanders get congratulated. Seems better to me than right now where players are sending 1* generals out on independant commands to get around the fact that if talented 1* generals are left within the conventional army as division commanders they don't get promoted as well as they should.

[Rafiki]

Unless I'm much mistaken, the engine faces off units against eachother, so a division does perform as such during a battle. I'll be the first to admit, though, that I have a very loose frasp of the details of it.

[Pocus]

There is no randomness involved, the Division Cmd earns seniority when his troops deal more hits than he suffers. The Corps Cmd does the same at the corps level. The Army Cmd does the same for all stacks under his command.

[Gray_Lensman]

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[ncuman]

Yes, I suppose maybe it is a matter of divisions inflicting more hits than he suffered. I have a tendancy not to attack unless I have a noticable advantage. So when I do attack, I notice that often there is at often least one of divisions that received little or no casualties at all in a battle, whereas the other divisions did have noticable casualties. So maybe the one division that did not receive casualties was sitting in reserve but never used.

[KCDennis]

On the subject of promotions, I'm still confused on how to promote someone once he earns that promotion. His information will say he is promotable, but the promotion button will be greyed out, and the tool tips says "You can't promote the commander of this stack. If a subordinate can be promoted you have to detach it in a separate force" I've had this happen even when I've moved the general and his unit off to a stack by himself. What am I doing wrong?

[cobraII]

here is a example. in the message log it say Nathen Bedford is now eligible for promotion. once you see that in the message log then you can promote him, if he is in a stack where he is not the highest ranked person then you will have to take him out of stack and click promote. hopefully this helps you

[Rafiki]

Hi KCDennis, and welcome to the forums

When the detail-window says "Promotable: yes" it means that if the general fulfills the other conditions for being promotable, you can promote him. Generals who have "Promotable: no" in the detail-window can never be promoted.

I'll agree that it is a bit confusing, but once you are aware of it, it's OK I hope

[KCDennis]

So in this example, Bragg is promotable, and the only commander in the St Louis region -- but I still can't promote him. Why?

[Gray_Lensman]

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[Rafiki]

As I said, I understand the confusion.

The difference is whether a general is generally (pun not intended) promotable, which depends on whether or not he is listed as "Promotable: yes", as Bragg is in your screenshot, and whether or not Bragg can be promoted here and now, which depends on the following:

• He has a seniority of 1 or 2, OR
• He has senority that is 4 higher than what he started with

Bragg has a seniority of 3, which is also what he started with (which you see in the square parenthesis), so he satisfies neither of these consditions. Once he gains 1 seniority, he'll satisfy the first one, and can then be promoted.

When promoting a general, he has to, as you say, be the commander of the stack he's in

EDIT: Dang! Outposted by Gray

[Comtedemeighan]

One other thing when a guy is promotable his unit symbol will kinda glow I noticed

[KCDennis]

Thanks for the explanation. It was that line in the unit detail box that was throwing me. Just to make sure I understand another part of the promotion requirements: if a general who can be promoted is leading a division within a corps, does his unit have to be withdrawn from the stack to a separate region, just so his promotion can take effect??

[Le Ricain]

Thanks for the explanation. It was that line in the unit detail box that was throwing me. Just to make sure I understand another part of the promotion requirements: if a general who can be promoted is leading a division within a corps, does his unit have to be withdrawn from the stack to a separate region, just so his promotion can take effect??

Yes. The promotion button for the stack will refer to the stack commander, ie the corps commander.

[Jabberwock]

He does need to be in a separate stack. His stack can stay in the same region.

[Gray_Lensman]

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