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Heldenkaiser
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Regular/Conscript/Volunteers/Militia

Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:18 pm

I am still getting a bit confused by the terms the manual and game use to describe manpower. Can someone more knowledgeable please clarify a few things for me, or define the terms succinctly?

"Conscripts" - this is used as the basic manpower unit, i.e. the cost in men to raise a unit. But the game also speaks of training conscripts into regular soldiers, so conscripts must also be a type of unit. Which one - militia?

"Militia" - partly these seem to represent state militia, since their state of origin is indicated on the unit (and I understand fighting in the home state gives them a bonus). But the infantry NATO symbol with the "M" is also given to

"Volunteers" - these are the units I raise under the "militia" tab of the recruitment screen. I would suppose that these are the basic building blocks of the volunteer armies. But then what confuses me is that

"Regulars" also lists infantry units with their state of origin. So are these, too, volunteers? Historically, regulars would be the standing army, i.e. the regiments with a "U.S." designation. But these can't even be raised in the game. So I suppose "regulars" are state volunteers in the Federal army. So if the games says conscripts are trained into regulars, does it in fact mean militia is called in the Federal service?

Are militia = conscripts = volunteers? :confused:

Thanks! :)
[color="Gray"]"These Savages may indeed be a formidable Enemy to your raw American Militia, but, upon the King's regular & disciplined Troops, Sir, it is impossible they should make any Impression." -- General Edward Braddock[/color]
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MarkCSA
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:05 pm

I'm a bit lost myself......

Once in a while I get the 'the something something guys have been trained with success' message.... but I am not completely sure what they were trained to, or by who (special general? random event?).

My militia (which always seems to be volunteers) seems to convert to conscript 'normal inf.' and then conscript 'line inf.' what exactly the difference is (other then somewhat other combat stats), I am not completely sure.

Also, when units 'convert', they seem to lose some of their experience (I've got a bunch of them in a training centre, more or less knowing what is going on and once in a while I hand pick some more or less combat ready troops).

Who can clarify?
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Coregonas
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:18 pm

Heldenkaiser wrote:I am still getting a bit confused by the terms the manual and game use to describe manpower. Can someone more knowledgeable please clarify a few things for me, or define the terms succinctly?

"Conscripts" - this is used as the basic manpower unit, i.e. the cost in men to raise a unit. But the game also speaks of training conscripts into regular soldiers, so conscripts must also be a type of unit. Which one - militia?

"Militia" - partly these seem to represent state militia, since their state of origin is indicated on the unit (and I understand fighting in the home state gives them a bonus). But the infantry NATO symbol with the "M" is also given to

"Volunteers" - these are the units I raise under the "militia" tab of the recruitment screen. I would suppose that these are the basic building blocks of the volunteer armies. But then what confuses me is that

"Regulars" also lists infantry units with their state of origin. So are these, too, volunteers? Historically, regulars would be the standing army, i.e. the regiments with a "U.S." designation. But these can't even be raised in the game. So I suppose "regulars" are state volunteers in the Federal army. So if the games says conscripts are trained into regulars, does it in fact mean militia is called in the Federal service?

Are militia = conscripts = volunteers? :confused:

Thanks! :)


The troops go upgrading around 5% chance turn:

Volunteers* 7/12 turn (5%) into
Militia 7/14 ->
Conscript* infantry 9-15 ->
Early Line infantry 10-16 ->
Late line infantry 11-20 ->

The confusion is that "conscript"** companies are the ones arriving from mobilization / call for "volunteers"**

* and ** have the same name but are 2 different things.

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Heldenkaiser
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:37 pm

Coregonas wrote:The troops go upgrading around 5% chance turn:

Volunteers* 7/12 turn (5%) into
Militia 7/14 ->
Conscript* infantry 9-15 ->
Early Line infantry 10-16 ->
Late line infantry 11-20 ->

The confusion is that "conscript"** companies are the ones arriving from mobilization / call for "volunteers"**

* and ** have the same name but are 2 different things.


Thanks! So there are really five different types of infantry which are upgraded in strictly hierarchical sequence, correct?

I am afraid I am even a little more confused now ... :confused:

Mind if I ask a few more questions?

1. How do you know what's what? Do they have different NATO icons? The manual does not list that many different types in the list of unit symbols.

2. If I "buy" "militia" in the reinforcements screen, which of the five types are they? If I get "event" militia, what are they? If I "buy" "regulars" (line infantry), what are they? If I get them by event, what are they?

Sorry if I'm just being slow on the uptake, and thanks for any explanation. :)
[color="Gray"]"These Savages may indeed be a formidable Enemy to your raw American Militia, but, upon the King's regular & disciplined Troops, Sir, it is impossible they should make any Impression." -- General Edward Braddock[/color]

Colonial Campaigns Club (supports BoA and WiA)

[color="Gray"]"... and keep moving on." -- General U.S. Grant[/color]

American Civil War Game Club (supports AACW)

Coregonas
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:50 pm

Well it is explained in the roster--- the one with the figure (a horse mounted, a face..)......

Click on the small regiment icon and all the element stats are reported. The name is there well reported.

Event militia is normally "Volunteers" but remember some times is militia... not sure

If you buy MILITIA you get MILITIA.

If you buy LINE you can get from conscript to regulars (depends on the cost)

NOTE Cavalry has also 3 levels
Conscript cav / Early Cav / Late cav

You can buy Conscript or Early (depends again on cost)

BUT you can not see stats before buying... You should have a record, and also inflation is taken into acount.

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Eugene Carr
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:59 pm

There is a fair amount of double meanings for the various terms.

My take on it is Militia = Home Defence troops, Volunteers = short service state troops, conscipts = green volunteer infantry, Early = trained Vol. Inf. Late = Vetran Vol. Inf.

There are the Regular Inf regt which you cant recruit and the elite brigades which you get as events.

Beneath all the conflicting terms each of these groups has its own model and they all have their own characteristics.

S!

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Jabberwock
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:46 pm

There are special symbols for conscripts and volunteers included with the game, but no db models point to them. This would make a good, quick, starter mod if somebody wants to do it.

symbol_infV.png
symbol_infC.png

the entry is ImageID in the models file.



Adding to the confusion, there are Regular Army line infantry (non-recruitable), which use a different model than any "regular" line infantry from the volunteer army.
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Heldenkaiser
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:53 pm

Geez, I feel like I opened a can of worms with my innocent question ... I'd never have guessed this is so complicated. :bonk:

Anyway, thank you all for your enlightening replies and explanations. :)
[color="Gray"]"These Savages may indeed be a formidable Enemy to your raw American Militia, but, upon the King's regular & disciplined Troops, Sir, it is impossible they should make any Impression." -- General Edward Braddock[/color]

Colonial Campaigns Club (supports BoA and WiA)

[color="Gray"]"... and keep moving on." -- General U.S. Grant[/color]

American Civil War Game Club (supports AACW)

ANTONYO
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:23 pm

Militia:
  • Volunteers
  • State Militia (It cannot move, it appears by events.)
Regular:
  • Conscripts
  • Early War
  • Late War.

Brochgale
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:21 am

Militia = cannon fodder. Or in case of CSA a cheap way of slowing up the yanks.

MarkCSA
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:43 am

Brochgale wrote:Militia = cannon fodder. Or in case of CSA a cheap way of slowing up the yanks.


Or... since you get loads of them in free replacements as the CSA anyway, a way to get 1000 men for the price of 700. Stick em in a training camp and watch them convert to decent troops.
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Coregonas
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:26 am

MarkCSA wrote:Or... since you get loads of them in free replacements as the CSA anyway, a way to get 1000 men for the price of 700. Stick em in a training camp and watch them convert to decent troops.


Add a decent leader such as Price also!

Brochgale
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:53 pm

MarkCSA wrote:Or... since you get loads of them in free replacements as the CSA anyway, a way to get 1000 men for the price of 700. Stick em in a training camp and watch them convert to decent troops.


Early in game when I dont have training masters to deploy I usually throw them into front line. Later when I sart to get training masters I stick them in one city or cities where I have traing masters and raise them up to line infantry that way.
I reason I have to slow down feds in 1861. Till I get Bragg and then I will stack militia with him then deploy them once they are raised. However it has not always worked out. Got butt kicked several times on hard settings using this strategy.

d0mbo
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:37 pm

whooo... wait....

Militia CAN be trained into regular infantry?

Can you form brigades with multiple elements with then? (E.g light artillery and cavalry added?)

Or will they just be one or two element brigades, with regular infantry?

MarkCSA
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:46 pm

d0mbo wrote:whooo... wait....

Militia CAN be trained into regular infantry?

Can you form brigades with multiple elements with then? (E.g light artillery and cavalry added?)

Or will they just be one or two element brigades, with regular infantry?


It actually converts automatically (check a thread for that) at something like 7% chance..... the trick is to have them in a stack with a guy that gives experience, so that while you wait, they get trained into even better troops.

After you're done with that, form a division and load it up with all kinds of different elements. Add 2 decent leaders for the role you intend it to have and ship em off in trains to the front.

Now a question about the 'guy that converts conscripts into regulars' his tooltip says that he converts the guys he *commands*, does he have to be the leader of the stack to convert, as I understand it:

A conscript unit (regular nato symbol for infantry, the cross in a box) -----> Line infantry (regular nato symbol for infantry, the cross in a box with a thick vertical black line on the left).

Is this correct?
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Jagger
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:20 pm

Coregonas wrote:The troops go upgrading around 5% chance turn:

Volunteers* 7/12 turn (5%) into
Militia 7/14 ->
Conscript* infantry 9-15 ->
Early Line infantry 10-16 ->
Late line infantry 11-20 ->

The confusion is that "conscript"** companies are the ones arriving from mobilization / call for "volunteers"**

* and ** have the same name but are 2 different things.


Actually militia upgrades to volunteers then conscript then early war and finally late war infantry.

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