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I've read the threads here and the WIKI FAQ, but still have this question: if Kentucky goes 'neutral' due to a Confederate invasion, is that the same as Kentucky being essentially Union now? It shows as part of the Union on the economics map. Can the Union now carry out attacks in Kentucky without further fear of secession?

As soon as a side attacks a settlement in Kentucky the state will go against the aggressor. You will get a message like 'Confederates invade Kentucky!'
After this happens the state is free game.

gwgardner wrote:I've read the threads here and the WIKI FAQ, but still have this question: if Kentucky goes 'neutral' due to a Confederate invasion, is that the same as Kentucky being essentially Union now? It shows as part of the Union on the economics map. Can the Union now carry out attacks in Kentucky without further fear of secession?

As soon as one side attacks a militia unit of the other side, Kentucky's loyalties shift to the defending side. Also, I believe that if the Union attacks Lexington or the CSA attacks Bowling Green, KY will shift to the defender's side. As W.Barksdale has said, you will get a message that "the Confederates (or the Union) have invaded". You are then free to attack without penalty.

Prior to these events you can still enter KY and attack enemy forces provided that they contain no militia.

I don't think it is the attack on the militia that affects Kentucky's neutrality. I believe it is the capture of Paducah, Columbus, Bowling Green, Louisville or Lexington by the opposing side. Attacking and losing would have no effect. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe I read somewhere on the forums that it is triggered by one of the locked militia units receiving damage. I have seen one or two rare occasions where a city was attacked and no damage was done to the defender, which in turn didn't fire the event.

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Here is a thread where Pocus states that the first side to invade causes KY to go the other way.
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=3330&highlight=kentucky+events
He also states that if neither side does anything that KY can swing in one direction or the other. I believe what you refer to in the events file is the part that can swing KY to either side without conflict.

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Hmm, looks like some testing is in order.

Well, in one of my games as the USA, CSA attacked and captured Bowling Greene and Paducah, destroying both militia units, and the loyalty shift happened on behalf of me. So i thought there wasn't any more penalty on Kentucky operations so i attacked and captured Lexington. Two turns later the "Kentucky secedes" event fired and there was a great loyalty shift. Also, there was a message in the log like "+40 loyalty, +20 conscription etc.." in my message log, but of course it must be the CSA message.

So, basically, what happened there? I read that it was a rather complex event, but i wonder what's going on.

Any considerations?

Evren wrote:Well, in one of my games as the USA, CSA attacked and captured Bowling Greene and Paducah, destroying both militia units, and the loyalty shift happened on behalf of me. So i thought there wasn't any more penalty on Kentucky operations so i attacked and captured Lexington. Two turns later the "Kentucky secedes" event fired and there was a great loyalty shift. Also, there was a message in the log like "+40 loyalty, +20 conscription etc.." in my message log, but of course it must be the CSA message.

So, basically, what happened there? I read that it was a rather complex event, but i wonder what's going on.

Any considerations?

The exact same thing happened to me in one of my games. The loyalty shift to the CSA was a pain. Fortunately, in the same game the event that keeps MO in the Union fired. It was a strange game having to garrison KY, but not MO.

Jabberwock wrote:I don't think it is the attack on the militia that affects Kentucky's neutrality. I believe it is the capture of Paducah, Columbus, Bowling Green, Louisville or Lexington by the opposing side. Attacking and losing would have no effect. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I have had KY neutrality affected by the CSA attacking, but not capturing Bowling Green in one game and Paducah in a second. The militia units in both cases were damaged.

I have had a situation like Evron's, but that was under patch 1.07. I have not seen it happen the same way under 1.08 or 1.09.

I ve had always the same event firing some as: " Kentucky invaded by CSA troops" and the only thing I have done is:

Buying a single KY militia.

The only thing it happened is this militia appeared --- and no other battles / movements / were done by me in the turn.

So "perhaps" this militia appearing in a void city triggers the event?

Once this has happened to me a few times, I dont recruit any KY troop... hoping USA launches his attacks...

But seems no good strategy, as USA runs easily then... even the loyalty hits agains him (suffered this in my current PBEM)

This does not happens to me in MO.

I can recruit all militias without triggering this effect (at least I have not detected any)

Missouri seems pretty stable, I have not seen any adverse effects there since I have been playing the game.

Kentucky on the other hand, has had many "strange" occurrences and weird results since I started playing.

I ve tried around a lot of tries to see why Ky is invade by CSA troops

Well I ve tried mainly

a) start besieging Bowling Green in turn 2 (or 3)
b) buying the single Ky militia in turn 3 (or not ... simply not buying it)
c) moving a cavalry thorough KY (or not)
d) destroying rail roads with a cavalry (or not)

CSA always invaded KY.
It happened sometimes after bowling green surrender / and sometimes before...

So I believe the only relevant question is Bowling green (or some other city I believe) is besieged... (The "Near" troops to cities explained in some quote before)

I ve tried another game without sending a troop to besiege B.G. USA troops launched some attacks and USA invaded KY!

I ve tried another time...

I ve bought the single KY militia as soon as possible.

It appeared in Lexington.

I send it to the Western railroads... And started to destroy them

Meanwhile... USA attacked it and survived...

BUT event didnt fire.

A couple turns after this, Bowling green was taken by CSA -> now event fired "CSA invaded KY"

So militia being attacked is not useful at all for firing the event... Perhaps only the "initial locked militia" is...

I believe those events fire by attacking locations. I'm not sure, as I've built a modded Kentucky Events based on Clovis fine work, and haven't looked at the vanilla since November!

The events fire if certain regions change ownership.

USA
McCracken (Paducah)
Warren (Bowling Greene)
Jefferson (Louisville)

CSA
Hickman (Columbus)
Fayette (Lexington)
Mason (Clarksburg)
and Boyd - I'm almost certain this one was meant to be Floyd (Prestonburg) as they are nearly adjacent on the map and the names are similar.

Also, I think if either side puts too many units along their own border adjacent to Kentucky, there is a chance it will go the other way. I think the limit is 25 for USA, and 35 for CSA. I believe that includes fixed and static units, but not units in the rivers, in Kentucky itself, or raiding in opposing territory. IIRC, there can be a delay between the turn in which there were too many units, and the turn when Kentucky chooses a side, which only adds to the confusion.