Dragoon78
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Some beginner questions.

Thu May 30, 2013 10:33 am

I decided to try the game out again and the past few days I gotta say I starting to like it alot more. Theres still a few things I'm confused about I was wondering if anyone had some pointers on. I've just been playing Athena on the least aggressive setting from 1861 to Jan. 1862. (I play only as the South btw.) So far I've had the union raid Baton Rouge and I was wondering how can they get past new Orleans and not be spotted if I have forts and ships there? Also sometimes it seems like I will have a one-star general that I want to make a division commander and i will have to click on the button to do this every turn. And how can you tell exactly how many troops the enemy has? Is there a way to see their power ratings also? How can you tell exactly how many men you have in a stack? Or do you have to click through all the units and kinda add them in your head which is what I've been doing. There is some good info on the beginner threads here so they have been alot of help but I still don't get what to consider most when planning for battles. Is it best to attack with Corps or divisions or armies?

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Jim-NC
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Thu May 30, 2013 11:22 am

There is/was a channel that bypasses New Orleans, but connects to the Mississippi River above New Orleans. It's possible she used that. To be sure, you can load her turn, and look at her orders for the last turn to be sure.
On the divisional command. After you click the button, you need to add troops to the general to make the division (using the + button). If you don't add any troops, then a division is not formed, and you can press the button for the general next turn.
To tell about the enemy, you need to scout the formations. Cavalry is very good for this. Move a cavalry unit next to her stacks, and you learn more information. Don't get hung up on the numbers of men. The game doesn't take that into account when attacking/defending. It uses hit points, and power. You can gauge the strength of your troops and the enemy troops by their power level. Power level is effected by cohesion, damage, supply and other factors).
As to attacking, the best strategy is to have more power then the enemy. Army HQs won't attack if there is another unit in the region. So if they have a power of 1,000 then you need at least 2,000 to attack. Whatever gives you that much power is what you need to use to attack the enemy.

If you have more questions, post them, and we (the other forumites) will help you to the best of our abilities.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Dragoon78
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Thu May 30, 2013 12:14 pm

Thanks for the answers. I can never seem to tell what the enemy power is, even when I have detailed info about them. Whenever i mouse over an enemy unit and it gives the info what are the numbers by the units? Is that the power of the units? Or their cohesion?

I also have read about people upgrading their versions of the game. Is it necessary to do this? I think mine is 1.07h.

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Captain_Orso
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Thu May 30, 2013 4:21 pm

The raiding force must have used the Atchafalaya River which connects to the Mississippi just above Port Hudson.

You can also use <ctrl><c> to combine 2 or more selected units in the unit display. So if you click the form divisional command button on a leader you can then us <ctrl><click> to select a number of additional units in the unit display and then press <ctrl><c> to combine them into your division. To add additional units to the division, just click on the division in the unit display--bottom of your display when you have clicked on one of your stacks--and then <ctrl><click> on 1 or more other units and <ctrl><c> to add those units to your division.

You can also break down a division by selecting it alone in the unit display and pressing <ctrl><d> for de-combine. To keep the divisional command you must have at least one combat unit in the division when you execute the turn, otherwise the division will be decommissioned, the division commander will become an independent leader and the costs you payed for creating the division will be lost.

The tool-tip that appears when you hover your mouse pointer over an enemy stack shows the strength of the know units in that stack in the parenthesis "( )". The left hand value is their current estimated strength and the right hand value is their strength at full cohesion.

Depending on the terrain, weather, Military Control (MC), hide and detection values of your and the enemy forces will determine how accurate the values are. Having move cavalry than the enemy in the regions in question plays a large role in detection.

About Baton Rouge, if you can blockade the harbor--generally 8 naval fighting elements or more parked in the exit points of the harbor--they will get no supplies into the harbor and you can starve them out eventually. The Atchafalaya and Mississippi Rivers are considered 'coastal waters' up to where they meet, which means that all the harbors along them can pull naval supply, which can only be blocked through blockading the harbors themselves.

Definitely update to patch level 1.17a. I would say that it's a must. There have been many, many improvements and fixes to the game since 1.07. Be sure to read the update file for explanations.

Dragoon78
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Thu May 30, 2013 11:17 pm

Thanks for the tips. So far i've played until Feb. 1862 and captured Washington D.C. with over 1000 vp but the game kept going. I'll probably start a new one since I just installed the new patch to see what is different. Now that I got the hang of making units and also using the e and r keys to make sure I move them all makes it alot easier.

Dragoon78
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Fri May 31, 2013 11:10 am

I have the patch installed and it looks like there a bunch of changes alright. Is there somewhere that anyone knows of where I can find the rules for what has changed and what is still the same?

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Ace
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Fri May 31, 2013 11:12 am

The patch puts a pdf file with the list of changes in your game folder

Dragoon78
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Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:46 am

Well I played my first entire game (on normal difficulty) starting in 1861 through Jan. 1864. Even after taking over all of Kentucky early in the game and invading Maryland and Southern PA with Lee (who got killed in a battle btw along with J.E.B. Stuart.) it seems like it took a while to beat the union who only had one or two major victories. I built a fort in Paducah which seemed to keep boats off the Ohio and built another in Nashville and another in Virgina right across the river from D.C. Strange I thought that I could bombard D.C. units from there but I guess not. Athena seemed a little obsessed with Charleston S.C. and kept trying to invade it. New Orleans was not touched the whole time except for the little Atchafalaya regiment. One thing I did not understand is where my Foreign intervention level is at. There were some of the boxes around the map that if I clicked on them would say (Confederacy) in parenthesis but all the units were locked. I haven't tried any of the other years yet. I might do 1863 next.

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Jim-NC
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Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:29 am

The European units are all locked until FI is triggered. After that, some unlock and some don't.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

colonel hurst
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Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:32 am

You can always find the FI level by opening the ledger and clicking on the objectives book. It will be listed about halfway down on the left.

Dragoon78
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Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:45 pm

I've been wondering about that, thanks colonel hurst. The AI aggressiveness setting was on low last game, this new game I just started i set it at medium and it makes a big difference with Athena.

Dragoon78
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:32 pm

OK, so I have been playing for a few months now (loving the game btw) and there is a few things I'm not sure about I wanted to get the input of the community on. I play exclusively as CSA.

Wheres the best place to build forts? I built one in Paducah and it seemed to do well keeping Nashville from bring invaded by river. But I also built one in Alexandria VA and it was practically useless. I thought maybe they could shell yankee positions across the river but they did'nt. Also, does Athena ever try to invade New Orleans? I always try to scrape together something to have on standby there but its usually not needed. Athena seems kinda obsessed with charleston SC but never seems to go for NO.

Is it better to have good division commanders under a sucky corps commander or a good corps commander with a bunch of sucky division generals? does it make a difference? Is there a way to tell if another army corps can help out one that you're going to send into battle? Sometimes I'll attack a corps of yanks thinking theyre isolated and get my butt handed to me when they have adjoining corps helps them out.

I have yet to really use any river ships. What are they best for? I generally just buy brigs to send as blockade runners if I purchase any naval assets. Also, is the politics tab the only way to get FI points? I try to get FI triggered but 100 points is alot it seems.

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Jim-NC
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:57 pm

Forts are a matter of taste. Forts can bombard ships (using the dreaded DAR - Double Adjacency Rule - ships must move between 2 river/sea regions that border your land area, or 2 sides of your land area. This is why the pre-built forts are all diamond shaped. They also help a smaller force hold out against a much larger force, allowing you to keep large enemy forces tied up. Paducah is a wonderful place for a fort, as it has 4 (IIRC) river regions that it borders, so lots of bombardment. A lot of people like one in Richmond as well (as it's your capital).
I have never noticed Athena sailing to New Orleans. Human opponents always do, but Athena never seems to.
It been a while since I saw this last, but IIRC, Corps commanders give a +3% per OFF/DEF point, while Division commanders give +1% per OFF/DEF Point. So Corps commanders give a higher bonus to the troops in the corps then the divisional commander gives to the troops in his division.
Ah, the joys of MTSG. You have to assume that all corps/army HQ units in the same general area are related, and will MTSG. Thus if there is a unit next to the coprs you're attacking, assume it can help it's buddy.
River ships can be used to block enemy troop movements. I think that is their best use. They are not 100% effective at blocking movement, but they are pretty good at it. The other thing river ships do is blockade harbors. If you are besieging an enemy unit, that is in a region with a harbor, you will need ships to blockade the harbor, or else the troops will continue to get supplies through the harbor.
As to FI, the biggest increases come from the politics tab. You can get up to 2 points per turn if you NM and VP are higher than the unions. But your biggest gain is from the political options. And remember it's not just about blockading cotton. You have other options as well.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

MarkCSA
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:54 am

Jim-NC wrote:Forts are a matter of taste. Forts can bombard ships (using the dreaded DAR - Double Adjacency Rule - ships must move between 2 river/sea regions that border your land area, or 2 sides of your land area. This is why the pre-built forts are all diamond shaped. They also help a smaller force hold out against a much larger force, allowing you to keep large enemy forces tied up. Paducah is a wonderful place for a fort, as it has 4 (IIRC) river regions that it borders, so lots of bombardment. A lot of people like one in Richmond as well (as it's your capital).
I have never noticed Athena sailing to New Orleans. Human opponents always do, but Athena never seems to.
It been a while since I saw this last, but IIRC, Corps commanders give a +3% per OFF/DEF point, while Division commanders give +1% per OFF/DEF Point. So Corps commanders give a higher bonus to the troops in the corps then the divisional commander gives to the troops in his division.
Ah, the joys of MTSG. You have to assume that all corps/army HQ units in the same general area are related, and will MTSG. Thus if there is a unit next to the coprs you're attacking, assume it can help it's buddy.
River ships can be used to block enemy troop movements. I think that is their best use. They are not 100% effective at blocking movement, but they are pretty good at it. The other thing river ships do is blockade harbors. If you are besieging an enemy unit, that is in a region with a harbor, you will need ships to blockade the harbor, or else the troops will continue to get supplies through the harbor.
As to FI, the biggest increases come from the politics tab. You can get up to 2 points per turn if you NM and VP are higher than the unions. But your biggest gain is from the political options. And remember it's not just about blockading cotton. You have other options as well.


Quick question, does having a fort in a region help the stack that is posted outside (so the Richmond Example, where I normally plonk down 30k men, at least) or do I have to Garrison it, and if so, does the Garrison always join in on any attack?
Murphy's Law of Combat: 'The most dangerous thing on a battlefield? An officer with a map'

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Ol' Choctaw
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:01 pm

In my experience, it works like this:

Outside a fort is outside a fort. They can develop entrenchments but just sitting there is not the same. Those in a fort only come out when you have the sally button pushed. The same as for towns. Otherwise they are only vulnerable to assault.

Those placed outside may retreat from a battle. Those inside will all die or surrender.

MarkCSA
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:22 pm

Ol' Choctaw wrote:In my experience, it works like this:

Outside a fort is outside a fort. They can develop entrenchments but just sitting there is not the same. Those in a fort only come out when you have the sally button pushed. The same as for towns. Otherwise they are only vulnerable to assault.

Those placed outside may retreat from a battle. Those inside will all die or surrender.


That's what I figured as well, best to leavev everybody outside, dig in and handle it from there.
Murphy's Law of Combat: 'The most dangerous thing on a battlefield? An officer with a map'

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Jim-NC
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:29 pm

I personally only build forts in Richmond (only means 5% of the time I build a 2nd fort somewhere). This allows the standing garrison + any new builds to hold off the occasional end run by the union of a division or 2. It allows me to keep my main army out there defending somewhere else. To get the benefit, the troops must be in the fort, which is where I leave the garrison. For all other defensive posts, I use regular entrenchments.

But that's just me.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Dragoon78
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:43 pm

Thanks for the info Jim :)

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Ol' Choctaw
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:04 pm

I seldom build forts and at any fort not on the coast, when I capture one, I usually move the artillery to a safer location I want to defend or battery on a river.

Most garrisons I leave outside set on green to retreat as they are only there to control the region. Better to save them than have to build a new one if a sizable force shows up. Exceptions are depots and objective regions. Those garrisons go inside and are perhaps a bit stronger, depending on the threat level.

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Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:31 pm

I am only new to this game, and are in a learning stage myself. But it looks like building a fort is rather expensive and can only be built in cities. So if i should care building one, it would for shure only be in a spot where i know for shure a strong enemy force would turn up. Otherwise its just a waste. For instance i have so far not seen much happening at the south coast. So to just have a few infantery and maybe an artillery in reserve around New Orleans was more than enough to handle the little that happened in the south.

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Ol' Choctaw
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:47 pm

Some of that depends on the AI setting. Often you get three or four invasions of Charleston and a sizeable force built up around Ft. Pickens. It is best if you have resources to take it early or you will have to contain the troops the AI puts there.

Dragoon78
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Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:44 pm

something else I could use some help with is the rules on sieges. Is it in the manual or did I miss it? Theres been a few times now that I've had a sizeable force surrender even when they could have held out longer. Also, do you guys think its worth it to industrialize some states if you are CSA?

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