AGEOD Forums

please note: all options are enabled from start for beta testing purpose. This won't be the case in the finished game. Lincoln will for example only be able to issue the Declaration starting with late 62 and only if the US morale is at least of 80.

As promise the day feature is back in February !! Excellent.

You know, I'm really looking forward to this game, but could I just mention one thing that sticks out just a little bit? It's the language you use for these in-game screens - it just seems 'un peu francais' if I can say that?

American English in the 1860s was spoken and written a little differently to the way it's used now - for example, you'd be unlikely to read "we'll" and much more likely to read "we shall".

I know it's a tiny point and I don't imagine anyone but me would care less, but immersion is always the key to this genre of game and the language just jars on my ear a bit when I read it.

Bien sur, si le jeu se joue bien, on pourrait dire que les mots sont pas la chose la plus importante, mais quand-meme - je crois qu'il serait aussi bizarre de lire dans un jeu napoleonien que "L'Empereur a des trucs a vous proposer"...

Jonny

JonnySwift wrote:You know, I'm really looking forward to this game, but could I just mention one thing that sticks out just a little bit? It's the language you use for these in-game screens - it just seems 'un peu francais' if I can say that?

American English in the 1860s was spoken and written a little differently to the way it's used now - for example, you'd be unlikely to read "we'll" and much more likely to read "we shall".

I know it's a tiny point and I don't imagine anyone but me would care less, but immersion is always the key to this genre of game and the language just jars on my ear a bit when I read it.

I don't think that this issue is very high on the priority list of things to do before the release (not that they don't care, just because of limited resources), but I know that in BoA the string files, which contain all messages, are changeable. So perhaps for AACW a "language mod" could be done by the community.

Thanks for the input!
We're (painfully) aware of our average English mastery. We have several native English speakers in the Beta team. They provide us with numerous corrections. Hopefully, by release date, most of the Euro English would have been fixed.

JonnySwift wrote:Bien sur, si le jeu se joue bien, on pourrait dire que les mots sont pas la chose la plus importante, mais quand-meme - je crois qu'il serait aussi bizarre de lire dans un jeu napoleonien que "L'Empereur a des trucs a vous proposer"...

Jonny

L'empereur en question a bien dit à Talleyrand: "Vous êtes de la merde dans un bas de soie" il me semble
L'expression de l'époque n'était pas forcément plus policée en fait

Korrigan wrote:Thanks for the input!
We're (painfully) aware of our average English mastery. We have several native English speakers in the Beta team. They provide us with numerous corrections. Hopefully, by release date, most of the Euro English would have been fixed.

I've done those translations.. we didn't think to make the text 19th-ish ! Good idea

Korrigan wrote:Thanks for the input!
We're (painfully) aware of our average English mastery. We have several native English speakers in the Beta team. They provide us with numerous corrections. Hopefully, by release date, most of the Euro English would have been fixed.

Espérons que la version française bénéficiera du même standard de qualité que celui recherché ici avec la version US/GB.
On pourra peut-ètre même l'estampiller du label ISO 9002 , qui sait ?

The betas are rather busy playing the game, but still they report some typos. If some of you want to proofread a small part of the texts, they are welcome!

Just reading the screenshot, I don't see any downside of the 'total blockade' and of the 'emancipation proclamation'.

Am I missing something or the US player will choose these options as soon as available ?

Pocus wrote:... the Emancipation Proclamation, for all slaves on United States soil!

That's just what it wasn't. The Emancipation Proclamation applied only to slaves in areas under Confederate control at the time. Union-controlled areas, including some former Confederate areas, could continue to own slaves until the 13th Amendment was passed -- after the war was over.

Shouldn't it be I and I've instead of we and we've since the player seems to be Abraham Lincoln and is signing the orders in the screenshot?

Wording: I don't quite know about the way the sentences are worded. Lincoln speak for the Union, the governement. Can be discussed yes.

About the Emancipation: This is a one shot event, when the situation is right, the Union can and should do it. Forthere is no drawbacks, but nothing is set in stone. If you have some documents backing the facts that some regions in the Union were unhappy , we can see to lower the loyalty of the said regions a bit.

As for the why of choosing an option or not. The second choice is in fact a serie of 3 options, what you see is the first of the three, the others two are also some actions to reduce the chances of a British/French intervention. Total Blockade seems nice, but on average will not net you any points (meaning that it is more a gamble than anything else, from a Foreign Intervention standpoint, it can backfire rather easily, as the Trent Affair shows). So you will perhaps instead choose one of the two others (Commercial concession or Territorial concession), because even if they don't boost your moral, and lower it in fact, you are sure to reduce a bit the Foreign Intervention, and this can be the goal you seek!

On the other hand, if you are really hard pressed to lower it, you can try to activate Total Blockade, because with some luck you can reduce by 8 points the Intervention value... or completely convince the British that you are the bad guys. So there is some choices here, each options has pros and cons. I hope it is clearer, but as for the rest, the numbers are still debated, bottom line being: each option must, in a given circumstance, be more attractive than others...

With respect to the Emancipation Proclamation, the reason Lincoln held on to it as long as he did was out of consideration for the loyalty of the border states which were slaveholding but sympathetic to the Union. These included Kentucky and Missouri.

Emanicpation should not be easy to execute while the war is in doubt. There should be some kind of trade off here. Emancipating the slaves too early in the war, or when the war is going well for the Confederacy, might have come across as a desperate and radical act for the Union. Handled wrongly, it might change the loyalty of some of these border states to be pro-Confederate. It could also lead to a drop in morale in the Union armies, or an increase in desertions.

This is already handled in the scripted event for the Emancipation proclaimation: the Union loyalty in KY and MO drops when the proclaimation is signed (and in some other border states as well ).

As a beta I can say that AGEOD boys did think of everything. You will be suprised

Jonathan Palfrey wrote:That's just what it wasn't. The Emancipation Proclamation applied only to slaves in areas under Confederate control at the time. Union-controlled areas, including some former Confederate areas, could continue to own slaves until the 13th Amendment was passed -- after the war was over.

I totally agree with this, and it is important to get it right.
The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to Confederate territory and specifically excluded those Virginia Counties and Louisiana Parishes under Union Army control.

Nathaniel wrote:I totally agree with this, and it is important to get it right.
The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to Confederate territory and specifically excluded those Virginia Counties and Louisiana Parishes under Union Army control.

That's true but many of the slaves in those areas had run away and were no longer under confederate control. Large numbers worked for the union first as laborers then soldiers. The wording of the proclamation needs to be corrected but the in game effect is fine. I would however add a small hit to the loyalty of the northern slave states after the proclamation is issued. I would also add a morale hit to the side that refuses a prisoner exchange. Soldiers liked the idea that they would be exchanged if captured. If there is no penalty there's no reason for the North to go along with an exchange. An exchange benefits the weaker side.

Propose a new wording if you feel it is needed.

There is a small hit to loyalty, as per PhilThib says, but it is not cited in the ledger.

As for prisoners, we can't (for now, an engine limitation) impact penalties if an option is NOT choosen, so instead I gave a bonus if the option triggers (ie both side are ok to the exchange).

How about this?

I am issuing a proclamation of emancipation which says that all persons held as slaves within any State or part of a State now in rebellion against the United States shall now be free.

I changed the actual wording of the proclamation to sound more modern. Here's the original.

All persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free.

Why even say I or we? I look at this as if its the actual doc, with lincoln to sign below...why can't we say:

All persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, now in rebellion against the United States, shall be, now and forever free.

frank7350 wrote:Why even say I or we? I look at this as if its the actual doc, with lincoln to sign below...why can't we say:

All persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, now in rebellion against the United States, shall be, now and forever free.

That would work too. I've been looking at some of Lincoln's orders and he usually just states the order although the Emancipation Proclamation is one that he begins with I.

He also begins a lot of them with "Ordered by the President".

Simple:

Ordered by the President, all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, now in rebellion against the United States, shall be, now and forever free.

works for me

Ordered by the President, the District of Washington D.C. must immediately be evacuated, and all government functions relocated to Philadelphia.

** difficult one to rewrite...congress has authority over d.c. which in modern times (1973) it gave to the mayor and council... so technically an order to evacuate would come from congress....but given lincoln's actions re: suspension of habeas corpus....why not have it come directly from old abe?

blockade- actual language:

"Whereas an insurrection against the Government of the United States has broken out in the States of South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas, and the laws of the United States for the collection of the revenue cannot be effectually executed therein comformably to that provision of the Constitution which requires duties to be uniform throughout the United States: And whereas a combination of persons engaged in such insurrection, have threatened to grant pretended letters of marque to authorize the bearers thereof to commit assaults on the lives, vessels, and property of good citizens of the country lawfully engaged in commerce on the high seas, and in waters of the United States: And whereas an Executive Proclamation has been already issued, requiring the persons engaged in these disorderly proceedings to desist therefrom, calling out a militia force for the purpose of repressing the same, and convening Congress in extraordinary session, to deliberate and determine thereon: Now, therefore, I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, with a view to the same purposes before mentioned, and to the protection of the public peace, and the lives and property of quiet and orderly citizens pursuing their lawful occupations, until Congress shall have assembled and deliberated on the said unlawful proceedings, or until the same shall ceased, have further deemed it advisable to set on foot a blockade of the ports within the States aforesaid, in pursuance of the laws of the United States, and of the law of Nations, in such case provided. For this purpose a competent force will be posted so as to prevent entrance and exit of vessels from the ports aforesaid. If, therefore, with a view to violate such blockade, a vessel shall approach, or shall attempt to leave either of the said ports, she will be duly warned by the Commander of one of the blockading vessels, who will endorse on her register the fact and date of such warning, and if the same vessel shall again attempt to enter or leave the blockaded port, she will be captured and sent to the nearest convenient port, for such proceedings against her and her cargo as prize, as may be deemed advisable. And I hereby proclaim and declare that if any person, under the pretended authority of the said States, or under any other pretense, shall molest a vessel of the United States, or the persons or cargo on board of her, such person will be held amenable to the laws of the United States for the prevention and punishment of piracy. In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed. Done at the City of Washington, this nineteenth day of April, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-one, and of the Independence of the United States the eighty-fifth."

wording accepted

Nathaniel wrote:The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to Confederate territory and specifically excluded those Virginia Counties and Louisiana Parishes under Union Army control.

Indeed. Furthermore, according to Wikipedia the 13th Amendment freed about 40,000 slaves in Kentucky and about 1,000 in Delaware; other Northern states had individually banned slavery before then.

I see that the 13th Amendment took effect at the end of 1865, but was not formally ratified by Texas until 1870; by Delaware until 1901; by Kentucky until 1976; and by Mississippi until 1995.

I am constantly amazed at the level of detail that is to be found in AACW. Even Lincoln's signature in the Political Screen is reasonably good copy of his actual signature.



The pic is above is from the evidence presented at a famous forgery trial in the 1930's. Lincoln's real sig is the bottom one. Someone has been doing their homework.