Why is Polk decimated?

[squarian]

I thought I understood supply but I'm stumped - is this a bug?

In the attached turn I load Polk, two bdes, one arty and supply onto a force of gunboats and transports in Memphis, bound for Columbus, KY. The force is at full supply when embarked, no enemy action AFAIK, and yet as of the next turn all the combat units are at skeletal strength?

Am I doing something wrong, or what?

[Coldsteel]

Has Kentucky entered the war yet on either side?

[ohms_law]

The US has just invaded Kentucky on the turn that you're giving orders on in this save game. You need to wait one turn before moving into Kentucky.

After running the turn you'll notice that you receive a message that says "CSA forces move to oppose USA invasion of Kentucky", which allows you to move units into Kentucky without penalty.

Incidentally, I don't think you should use force march so much. Remember that you have to replace all of the men that you loose by force marching units around.

[Stauffenberg]

I thought I understood supply but I'm stumped - is this a bug?

In the attached turn I load Polk, two bdes, one arty and supply onto a force of gunboats and transports in Memphis, bound for Columbus, KY. The force is at full supply when embarked, no enemy action AFAIK, and yet as of the next turn all the combat units are at skeletal strength?

Am I doing something wrong, or what?

Your troops were interned.

[squarian]

Ah, that's it - thanks everyone. Last I really spent any time with AACW was before the new Kentucky events. Is a summary of these still available somewhere - searching "Kentucky" and related terms turns up way too many hits.

[squarian]

Well I kept at it, sorting through Kentucky threads, until I found this one, which does explain some of the mechanics but eventually descends into drivel:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=20315&highlight=kentucky

The problem is, I did once know some of this, but after more than a year away from AACW I had forgotten most of it - and I doubt I ever even knew about troops being interned. Meanwhile, the AACW wiki has an intriguing entry advertising "all you need to know":

http://www.ageod.net/aacwwik/Discrepancies_between_manual_and_patches

Except the link is dead, presumably another casualty of a certain well-known titanic hissy-fit.

I've been around awhile, I know this is mostly volunteer effort, so point me in the right direction and I'll make the post to be sticky'ed.

[caranorn]

I'm pretty sure no relevant documentation to the w/Ky scenario could have survived the "well-known titanic hissy-fit" :-( ...

[lodilefty]

I'm pretty sure no relevant documentation to the w/Ky scenario could have survived the "well-known titanic hissy-fit" :-( ...

Well, then as a group we'll just have to recreate it!

[Stauffenberg]

Let's cross the river and rest in the shade of that tree, see who can get there fastest with the mostest... um, how did that quote go?

[Captain_Orso]

Ummm - doesn't ADEod have a backup of the forums, maybe in iterations, maybe deltas at certain points of time over that last year? I imagine that one could, in worst case, restore the forum to some free disk space (!!NOT OVER THE ORIGINAL FORUM!!:neener and extract the necessary information.

[Jarkko]

I guess Clovis should know, because I seem to remember it was his Kentucky mod (from Struggle for a Vast Future) that was basically incorporated into the official game. Don't know how much has changed since then (either in the mod or official version), but this is what Clovis wrote at the time:

26) New scripting of Kentucky events in 1861

a) At start, Kentucky can't be entered by any side ( blockstate set to 1)
b) Kentucky will secede if foreign intervention level raises to 30;
c) Kentucky will secede if Union troops decides to enter Kentucky
d) on the contrary, Kentucky will join Union if attacked by Confederates;
e) if Kentucky hasn't seceded on 1st of October 1861, it will join the Union

To choose to invade Kentucky, each side will have to buy an unit ( from turn 2, support category) ( named Invades Kentucky) whose presence will be checked each turn. This unit will enable an event removing the blockstate status of Kentucky...

Union will get too some other units:
- blocus of the Kentucky: lower revenues and WSU for confederates but add to Foreign level entry
- Fremont declaration : Union will gain some NM and VP points but will lose loyalty in some states; the Foreign level entry will be slighty raised

For AI: each of these events will have an AI version, based on probability. AI can't get a thinking about but it's the only way to create variation against Athena.

[Captain_Orso]

IIRC there were also some percents that between 2 dates Kentucky would secede or decide to remain in the Union and other percentages if at the end of the second date, if Kentucky were still neutral that determined whether it seceded or remained in the union.

About the penalty of entering Kentucky too soon, the basic turn of events is:

1. Side-a buys the 'invade Kentucky' chit.
2. In the next turn side-a can now invade Kentucky at no penalty. Most Kentucky units will belong to side-b (not all; the non-invading side get's the most units).
   
   • Side-b gets a news paper message that Kentucky has been invaded.
   • Side-b can now also enter (quasi invade) Kentucky, but because Kentucky has not yet declared that it has allied itself with side-b, if side-b sends units into Kentucky, they will be 90% decimated as if through attrition. This is to simulate Kentucky also fighting side-b too, although side-a invaded first.
     
3. The second turn after the invasion chip was purchased, side-b gets a news paper message that side-b is moving troops into Kentucky to support it against the invasion from side-b and that Kentucky has sided with side-b. Side-b can enter Kentucky normally without penalty.

IIRC the probability that baring an invasion Kentucky would secede was greater than it remaining in the Union.

There was also an explanation that if you had unlocked units in a region adjacent to Kentucky, these units would increase the probability that Kentucky would side with the other side by a percentage cumulative to the number of units adjacent to Kentucky.

Units in a river location (on generic or real transports) with a region belonging to the unit's side adjacent to the river location do not affect this, as they are considered to be transporting over the owning sides own river location. For example, the US could have units on transports adjacent to Louisville without affecting Kentucky's secession probability, because there is an adjacent US land region.

There was also and explanation to what happens if both players buy the invasion chit in the same turn and the percentages of it seceding or remaining in the Union.

The whole thing was quit extensive.

[lodilefty]

You two have captured the essentials.

I had to flow-chart this set of events when chasing a bug:

[Captain_Orso]

Hmmm....



Well, yeah, that's the obvious part, isn't it ....








All kidding aside, I think we need the old description back if possible.

[lodilefty]

All kidding aside, I think we need the old description back if possible.

I'll see what we can do.....