Another newbie questions thread

[Ubercat]

Hi all. I've been getting into this game in a big way, and have some questions and observations.

I've had a half dozen or so false starts against Athena in the last week. I play [as the Union] about four turns and quit when I see that I've made a mistake. The early turns are fast, so it's no big deal. I do learn something new each time, though.

The South always tries to take Harpers Ferry, usually around turn 3. I make an effort to hold it by sending 2-3 stacks, but they're usually defeated. I want to blow the depot, but I can't. The tool tip over the grayed out order suggests that it's because the depot is higher than level one. Checking the depot on the map, however, indicates that it's only level one.

Speaking of Harpers Ferry, something extraordinary happened in my current game. Beauregard, who was sitting in Richmond, fought battles in Manassas, and Harpers Ferry, both in the same turn!

I had moved the ships from Norfolk, up the James River to keep an eye on the enemy capital, which is how I know he was there. I marched a moderately strong stack from Alexandria to Manassas, which only had a weak brigade or 2 defending, probably militia. My troops got stomped by a magically appearing Beauregard with a much stronger stack.

Right after that battle Harpers Ferry was attacked, also by Beauregard, and my defending stacks were scattered to the winds. One of them was the German cavalry officer from New York. I don't know where his troops went, possibly destroyed, but the general showed up alone in a city several regions away.

I'm guessing that Beauregard was ordered to move by rail from Richmond, up to where he could attack Harpers Ferry. His path happened to go through Manassas, where his troops jumped off the train and took part in the defense, then continued on to their destination and won a second battle in the turn. Is that a feasible scenario? I'm not reporting it as a bug, since it seems that it may be WAD. Still, an amazing stroke of luck for the South!

Is massing several stacks in the same region a good tactic when it's too early for Corps and Divisions? Each stack individually only has a slight command penalty. Since they're all together, will they fight together, despite being independents?

On another subject, I've read that depots make a chain, which can boost supply 3-5 regions between each link. Does that mean than an army can draw supply from a depot which is 3-5 regions away? (assuming that the army isn't too big for what that depot can provide) Also, how about a large city? Can an army draw supply if it's within 3-5 regions of a large city?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[OneArmedMexican]

Speaking of Harpers Ferry, something extraordinary happened in my current game. Beauregard, who was sitting in Richmond, fought battles in Manassas, and Harpers Ferry, both in the same turn!

Perhaps he simply had marching orders from Manssas to Harpers Ferry?

I had moved the ships from Norfolk, up the James River to keep an eye on the enemy capital, which is how I know he was there. I marched a moderately strong stack from Alexandria to Manassas, which only had a weak brigade or 2 defending, probably militia. My troops got stomped by a magically appearing Beauregard with a much stronger stack.

Do even more reconnaissance!

Right after that battle Harpers Ferry was attacked, also by Beauregard, and my defending stacks were scattered to the winds. One of them was the German cavalry officer from New York. I don't know where his troops went, possibly destroyed, but the general showed up alone in a city several regions away.

His name is Schurz. If he showed up with a lock symbol, his cavalry was indeed wiped out and he was wounded. You should find some sort of explanation for what happened in the battle and/or turn report.

Is massing several stacks in the same region a good tactic when it's too early for Corps and Divisions? Each stack individually only has a slight command penalty. Since they're all together, will they fight together, despite being independents?

Stacks in the same region will join the fight, but not always from the very start. Without corps you will however get no support from troops in adjacent regions. As for forming big stacks inspite of the command penalty. I do it where I am on the defense. I try to avoid it when I take the offensive (the command penalty slows the movement down, too). But sometimes you have no choice, especially if you want to engage the enemies main forces. For that reason try to make the most of your one army HQ.

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

Yeah, I never like more than 1 non-corps/army stack in an attack because they often won't support each other and only 1 of them will engage.

[Ubercat]

Thanks again for your responses. I have a few more questions.

I have a brigade, located 2 regions away from a depot. There is no location in the region containing the brigade, but it is connected by rail with the depots region. The brigade is out of general supplies, and doesn't seem to be drawing any from the depot that is only 2 spaces away. I have plenty of rail capacity. Is the out of supply situation to be expected?

I thought units could resupply from 3-5 spaces away from a depot? I read the supply primer, which doesn't state that explicitly. It just says that a network of depots must be 3-5 regions apart. Do units, then, only draw supply if they're actually sitting on a depot or large city? If so, supply wagons are even more important than I thought.

Is there any connection between your replacement pool, and newly recruited units filling out their manpower? I realize that units which take casualties, or begin a scenario understrength, require replacements from the pool. What about brand new units? They can take several turns to get out of the red, depending on their type. Is the manpower coming from the pool? Or is it covered by the cost you paid for the unit? I ask because I bought several medical and signal units in my current game, and they appear to be making no progress after 2 turns.

Another question deals with the games strategic options in Northern Virginia, vs. the historical options of the actual war. I did some research on the Shenandoah valley, since I knew it played an important role historically in tying down Union forces.

What do experienced players think of the valleys role in the game? The actual valley seems to have been harder to enter and leave than in the game, and probably easier to defend. Am I mistaken?

I finally managed to pull off a successful defense of Harpers Ferry. After one failed attempt to capture it, J Johnston took his powerful stack and invaded PA by going through the mountains of WV He went from just south of HF, to Summers WV in one turn, threatening Pittsburgh. The city only had 2 militia units defending, which I ordered to blow the depot.

I sent a stack by rail to defend the city, and Johnston moved (in one turn) another 3 regions to Clearfield PA, toward the center of the state. There's no telling where he'll turn next, and he's leaving a trail of pillaged regions in his wake. It's hard to believe that he can move so fast, as he's got 3 supply trains and also some artillery to haul through all the mountains and rough terrain he's traversing.

As for my settings, The CSA are on lowest aggression, with a recon bonus. It's hard to believe that Johnstons fast invasion is realistic. I understand that there are issues with the AI. If I played a MP game, would my opponent also be capable of this degree of speed?

Thanks again.

[Captain_Orso]

Hi Ubercat

Thanks again for your responses. I have a few more questions.

I have a brigade, located 2 regions away from a depot. There is no location in the region containing the brigade, but it is connected by rail with the depots region. The brigade is out of general supplies, and doesn't seem to be drawing any from the depot that is only 2 spaces away. I have plenty of rail capacity. Is the out of supply situation to be expected?

I thought units could resupply from 3-5 spaces away from a depot? I read the supply primer, which doesn't state that explicitly. It just says that a network of depots must be 3-5 regions apart. Do units, then, only draw supply if they're actually sitting on a depot or large city? If so, supply wagons are even more important than I thought.

Units without a supply train can draw supplies from neighboring regions. Beyond that they need a supply train to draw supplies. Even with that being said, there is still no guarantee. Terrain and weather can also play a role; the worse (both taken into account) the less supply that can be transferred.

Is there any connection between your replacement pool, and newly recruited units filling out their manpower? I realize that units which take casualties, or begin a scenario understrength, require replacements from the pool. What about brand new units? They can take several turns to get out of the red, depending on their type. Is the manpower coming from the pool? Or is it covered by the cost you paid for the unit? I ask because I bought several medical and signal units in my current game, and they appear to be making no progress after 2 turns.

There's no connection, though because the units being built sometimes resemble beaten-up units getting re-built-up, I get that feeling sometimes too, but no, there's no connection. You pay for the conscript companies at the time of buying the unit only.

Another question deals with the games strategic options in Northern Virginia, vs. the historical options of the actual war. I did some research on the Shenandoah valley, since I knew it played an important role historically in tying down Union forces.

What do experienced players think of the valleys role in the game? The actual valley seems to have been harder to enter and leave than in the game, and probably easier to defend. Am I mistaken?

The thing about the Shenandoah that made it a thorn in the side of the Union was that it hid the movement of troops from outside and that it ends with nothing of substantial defensive value between it and Washington D.C.. As Lincoln put it, it was a shotgun pointing at the capital.

In hindsight, T.J. Jackson used his advantage of intimately knowing the valley and using it's geography to his advantage and the Unions disadvantage. Both arms of the valley on each side of the Massanutten mountain are narrow and can easily be blocked because of this, though this seldom occurred, and the north-west side had an improved road that Jackson could use to move his troops quickly regardless of weather (a huge advantage for a quick mover). Jackson rather looked for locations where he could deploy his forces, much better in quality, and where the Union couldn't take advantage of their superior numbers.

There have been several discussion in the forum about how well the Shenandoah is represented in-game. The consensus was more or less, that it's not entirely possible at this scale of game, though it does as good a job as possible.

I finally managed to pull off a successful defense of Harpers Ferry. After one failed attempt to capture it, J Johnston took his powerful stack and invaded PA by going through the mountains of WV He went from just south of HF, to Summers WV in one turn, threatening Pittsburgh. The city only had 2 militia units defending, which I ordered to blow the depot.

I sent a stack by rail to defend the city, and Johnston moved (in one turn) another 3 regions to Clearfield PA, toward the center of the state. There's no telling where he'll turn next, and he's leaving a trail of pillaged regions in his wake. It's hard to believe that he can move so fast, as he's got 3 supply trains and also some artillery to haul through all the mountains and rough terrain he's traversing.

LOL yes, it's something to get used to that supply and artillery do not hamper movement at all. Look at it this way, all the units in the game move themselves. They all have their own mode of transport and really move all by themselves. They only need an order and maybe somebody to lead them. As long as their leader isn't over-burdened by the task of coordinating too many units, they can and will move as quickly as they could otherwise. Only slow-moving units like siege artillery will slow a stack down.

As for my settings, The CSA are on lowest aggression, with a recon bonus. It's hard to believe that Johnstons fast invasion is realistic. I understand that there are issues with the AI. If I played a MP game, would my opponent also be capable of this degree of speed?

Thanks again.

To really know how it's done, you'd have to turn the game back and switch sides and look at the plotted move. I'm pretty certain that Johnston is using forced march and avoid combat to optimize movement over attack.

[Ubercat]

Johnston went from the southern tip of Pennsylvania, threatening Pittsburgh, to the southern tip of New York state, all in 2 turns. It's hard to believe that he could move that fast without a modern road network, even with forced marches. Four weeks is a long time to march all day and get barely any sleep.

Can human players pull this kind of blitzkrieg off in a MP game? The immersion factor of the SP game is pretty much shot for me.

I bought BOA2, but haven't downloaded it yet. How realistic are movement restrictions in that game?

I hope everyone [in America] had a great Thanksgiving!

[Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne]

Turn the AI agression to passive and up the AI detect value in the options to limit the deep raids from happening. The AI seems to have a little more trouble controlling the south than it does the north.