The state of the game

[Ubercat]

Hi all, new member here.

I've wanted to buy this game for a couple of years now and finally have a PC that can handle it. I would primarily play solo, but unfortunately it appears that the AI won't present a realistic challenge after I pass the learning curve. Is this correct?

I've read about the extreme cavalry raiding which may not be stupid of the AI in terms of the game mechanics, but is still historically unrealistic and could seriously hamper the immersion factor.

Email play would be fun, but I want a game that I can play for hours at a time. Email would be one turn at a time, which would limit the games playability to when my opponent has sent me a new turn.

My purpose in posting is not to bash the game or it's fantastic development team, but to hopefully learn that my impressions are wrong.

I've got RTS out the yin yang on my new PC. The first two games I purchased were Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance and Dawn of War Platinum. I'm jonesing for some grand strategy, now, and this beautiful game would fit the bill....uh, beautifully, if the AI can perform well.

Thanks for any input!

[Clovis]

Hi all, new member here.

I've wanted to buy this game for a couple of years now and finally have a PC that can handle it. I would primarily play solo, but unfortunately it appears that the AI won't present a realistic challenge after I pass the learning curve. Is this correct?

I've read about the extreme cavalry raiding which may not be stupid of the AI in terms of the game mechanics, but is still historically unrealistic and could seriously hamper the immersion factor.

Email play would be fun, but I want a game that I can play for hours at a time. Email would be one turn at a time, which would limit the games playability to when my opponent has sent me a new turn.

My purpose in posting is not to bash the game or it's fantastic development team, but to hopefully learn that my impressions are wrong.

I've got RTS out the yin yang on my new PC. The first two games I purchased were Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance and Dawn of War Platinum. I'm jonesing for some grand strategy, now, and this beautiful game would fit the bill....uh, beautifully, if the AI can perform well.

Thanks for any input!

Try to play first. Seriously, any wargame AI has flaws. Now, the AI isn't as bad you believe.

[Chaplain Lovejoy]

Yep--download the free demo and play. Then you can evaluate the AI personally.

[Mickey3D]

Hi all, new member here.

Welcome !

I would primarily play solo, but unfortunately it appears that the AI won't present a realistic challenge after I pass the learning curve. Is this correct?

IMHO, the AI will be no match after you masterize game mechanics.

Email play would be fun

Definitively the PBEM is a must : you think you know the game but still your opponent will surprise you with some wily stratagem.

but I want a game that I can play for hours at a time. Email would be one turn at a time, which would limit the games playability to when my opponent has sent me a new turn.

With some diligent players you can play several turns a day. When you post to find an opponent specify how many turns per day/week you would like to play.

Hope you will enjoy this great game.

[Hobbes]

Bear in mind that some of the short scenarios are really there just to teach the player the mechanics. Don't judge the full campaign by these.

[Chaplain Lovejoy]

Oops, you're right.

[Banks6060]

I personally never play against the AI. Playing hours at a time is also something that can STILL happen with PBEM...especially if you're really getting into the nitty gritty on each of the turns. I know that it usually takes me about an hour or...probably 90 minutes to really get through a whole turn. Especially in the latter parts of the PBEM game. ESPECIALLY when it's time to call up reinforcements and keep the budget as reasonable as possible. Then my game time shoots through the roof...2 hours at least.

This game is far too enjoyable to miss...from a PBEM standpoint.

[Daxil]

I personally never play against the AI. Playing hours at a time is also something that can STILL happen with PBEM...especially if you're really getting into the nitty gritty on each of the turns. I know that it usually takes me about an hour or...probably 90 minutes to really get through a whole turn. Especially in the latter parts of the PBEM game. ESPECIALLY when it's time to call up reinforcements and keep the budget as reasonable as possible. Then my game time shoots through the roof...2 hours at least.

This game is far too enjoyable to miss...from a PBEM standpoint.

If you really want it can take 4 times that in the latte rounds.. especially if you're new to the game. I mean, you're trying to figure out which generls belong where, how to combine troops to get the most elite/appropriate divs on top of strategy and reviewing the previos turn. It can suck away hours from your life.

[Ubercat]

I do have the demo, and I've played through the 2 smaller demos in it.

I poked around the first turn of the GC (demo version) as the Union, just to see what I had available. I don't have too many leaders and none are promotable. I assume that leaders just appear on the map near their historical dates and locations? I was reading earlier about having only one opportunity to promote any given leader. This doesn't seem realistic. Do I get a clear warning of the opportunity, say in a pop-up, or do I have to examine all leaders each turn to make sure I don't miss it?

I have one concern about PBEM. Are there many gamey tactics that many players employ? I tend to follow history fairly closely. I don't mind alternate strategies but exploits (like extreme cavalry raiding) would spoil my immersion factor.

All told, I probably will buy the game anyway. It's too gorgeous, with too many great aspects, to pass up.

Thanks again for your feedback, guys.

[Mickey3D]

Playing hours at a time is also something that can STILL happen with PBEM...especially if you're really getting into the nitty gritty on each of the turns. I know that it usually takes me about an hour or...probably 90 minutes to really get through a whole turn. Especially in the latter parts of the PBEM game. ESPECIALLY when it's time to call up reinforcements and keep the budget as reasonable as possible. Then my game time shoots through the roof...2 hours at least.

This game is far too enjoyable to miss...from a PBEM standpoint.

+1

[Daxil]

I have one concern about PBEM. Are there many gamey tactics that many players employ? I tend to follow history fairly closely. I don't mind alternate strategies but exploits (like extreme cavalry raiding) would spoil my immersion factor.

There are gamey tactics players use. You will need to address your concerns and implement house rules to avoid them. Much of the game is based on the honor system as the host could easily cheat if they wanted to. It is best to find an opponent who is evenly matched whom you trust and just play them several times, switching sides, using new rules etc.

We're working on actually creating ratings for players here: http://www.ageod-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=232. If implemented board-wide it would be one way of finding equitable opponents. Just throwing that in so someone might notice what we're doing. Mostly they're for our tournament, which hopefully we can get a second, third going simultaneously soon which everyone would be welcome to participate in.

[arsan]

Hi!
To give an alternative opinion...
I have been playing AGEOD games since 2006 strictly against the AI and enjoy them a lot
The Ai has flaws, as all AI's, but its one of the very best around.
She can give you a run for your money for quite some time until you learn most of the game rules tricks. And after that, she can still be a worthy and fun opponent as long as you follow some "house rules" and try to not abuse her flaws or play gamey with her.
I like this kind of wargames more as an historical simulation than like a competitive game (that's why i have no interest on PBEM), so i tend to try play "historicaly" and not with optimization in mind.
In this way, Athena (the AI) can give you lots of satisfactions.

In addition you have the possibility to give her some advantages (hard difficulty and up) which increase the difficulty giving her troops more combat power but i tend to prefer to play on normal difficulty and not "abuse" her. It gives better immersion to me
Regards

[MarkShot]

Howdy, Ubercat!

Are you the same Ubercat I know from Matrix? (Yes, I would be the same MarkShot from Matrix mainly associated with PG.)

I cannot say that I've spent time with AACW, but it was my impression playing the prior game that it gave a fair accounting of itself. We all know that except for very narrow niches like Chess, talented humans outperform AI. It's not only that ... humans will exhibit variable play and strategies that simply are beyond most AIs to emulate. Lastly, humans demonstrate pride, self-debt, stubborness, fixation, etc... Once you become competent at any game, playing with a human opponent, you'll find that the psychological factors may even have more of an impact than the actual quality of strategy and tactics.

In general, I think most of our customers play more SP than PBEM. We have a solid base and as you know wargame/strategy game customers tend not to be teens looking for a 5 minute shoot out, but rather adults who tend to like to ponder their plans and weigh their options. The AI of the engine which powers this game has been upgraded repeatedly since its release and patches are still released. So, I think you'll be getting your money's worth.

There are options that will allow you to adjust the difficulty of game play. If ever you get so proficient that that's not enough, well there is always seeing in what year and month you can force an end or can you win while keeping the KIA/WIA ratio as low as possible.

Finally, you might venture into PBEM. I hear tell that there is a true Southern Belle somewhere around these parts knighting reknown PBEMers and photoshopping medals for them. Come think of it for the ACW, she should probably be doing regimental colors? Hmm ...

Nice bumping into you.

[Ubercat]

I am on Matrix under the same name. I'm surprised to have been noticed over there, as I've only posted a small handful of times and only in the MWIF section IIRC. I'm going to go further in the demo and then probably buy the game.

[oldspec4]

I am on Matrix under the same name. I'm surprised to have been noticed over there, as I've only posted a small handful of times and only in the MWIF section IIRC. I'm going to go further in the demo and then probably buy the game.

Ubercat,

Mark also recognized me from the HTTR/CoTA Matrix forums and I am not a particularly big poster there either. Anyhoo..my AGEOD (BOA, WIA, and AACW) play style mirrors that of arsan above. IMO, the games are well designed with outstanding continual player support.

[MarkShot]

Ubercat, I am not sure where from Matrix, but I just recall seeing your ID; perhaps once posted on the same thread with you.

Especially, when people keep the same ID across multiple venues, I think they are not too hard to spot. I mean just how many developers/publishers/sites are there in certain genres of games? In most cases just a handful ... in some case not even that. (For example, other than Subsim where else are you going to find a large crowd of virtual bubbleheads?)

So, I tend to recognize the same names between Matrix, the Wargamer, AGEOD, ...

Nice to see you again, as well, Oldspec4.

---

I think I should probably load up AACW, NCP, WIA, and WWI. I was originally playing BOA on my lap top (my desktop had issues with AGE only supporting the default 96 DPI setting). However, my laptop only had 512Mb RAM. So, BOA would thrash around pretty good when scrolling in the GC. Now, my current desktop is at 96 DPI with 4Gb RAM ... so it would run very smooth.

So, many things I want to do and so little time. If only the industry would declare a 2-3 year moratorium on new game development, I might actually be able to catch up!

[oldspec4]

Mark..you finally takin' a break from 1830?

[MarkShot]

Funny you should ask, since I am in the middle of a game at this very moment.

I just love that game. It's become an obsession. So, I guess you must have been following last year's 1830 Showcase on the Wargamer and my current advance trading techniques thread. (These days its dangerous to talk about wrecking companies, crashing the market, and trading ... even if if is only in a virtual sense. You never know when a mob will appear from around the corner shouting "burn him!".)

[Mickey3D]

Mark..you finally takin' a break from 1830?

Is it the same game as the 1830 boardgame ?

I used to play it several years ago. I didn't know there was a computer version.

[MarkShot]

Yes, there was PC version released by Simtex in 1994 which plays great under DOSBOX.

[Lew]

I find Athena (the AI) to be more than good enough to provide great gameplay. When I play the Confederates, Athena whups my ass pretty consistently when I give her Hard difficulty bonuses, a little help with activation ratings, extra time to think, and so forth. As the Union, I haven't yet won on Very Hard (plus activation boni, etc.).

The one thing Athena doesn't like at all (that I've discovered) are raids to destroy rails. I once smashed up everything in Indiana and half of IL, OH, and PA, and it was way, way too much. In recent games, I've limited rail destruction to a max of 2/turn, and a total number of smashed rails at any one time to about 15.

Short answer: Don't get gamy, and the AI's plenty good.

[W.Barksdale]

IMHO the AI is mediocre at best. If you have any grasp of strategic movements it will pose no challenge. Cranking the difficulty only turns its soldiers into supermen. I'd recommend playing by email if you need a challenge. That being said, it is the best money I've ever spent on a game.

[77NY]

IMHO the AI is mediocre at best. If you have any grasp of strategic movements it will pose no challenge. Cranking the difficulty only turns its soldiers into supermen. I'd recommend playing by email if you need a challenge. That being said, it is the best money I've ever spent on a game.

I have to agree. Playing my second campaign as CSA and British and French have intervened and the only question in September 1864 is whether total conquest or Sudden Death will happen first.

By contrast, my PBEM experience has been a lot of fun/challenging.

[MVDH]

IMHO the AI is mediocre at best. If you have any grasp of strategic movements it will pose no challenge. Cranking the difficulty only turns its soldiers into supermen. I'd recommend playing by email if you need a challenge. That being said, it is the best money I've ever spent on a game.

I second Barksdale. I have 2 PBEM games going on at the moment. PBEM is really the best way to enjoy this wonderful game to its fullest extent. This is the best strategy wargame I have ever played.

Mark

[Brochgale]

With1.13 patch

AI is still a bit dodgy on repairing rails. In present game I have elected only to destroy Maryland/Kentucky/Missouri rail playing as CSA. Playing a purely defensive war agaist AI on hard settings - it has been slow in repairing rail but it did repair the west Virginia rail that I destroyed in early61. No invasion of what I would regard as Northern States.

Its movements out west are a bit strange, dont get the crazy moves that occurred wityh previous versions but thye all seem a bit strange and no coherent strategy at work.

I also notice a rather large Yankee force sitting in Arizona which could probably kick my butt totally out of Texas but it just sits there doing nothing, also a bit slow of exploiting my weakness in in Tennessee and Kentucky in 61.

There is a bloodbath in 62 in Virginia though. But it did make a crazy move planting a weak Corps in Shenandoah and then just leaving it there for Jackson to maul at will.

I am though not killing the yanks at the rate I was in previous versions. It is generally avoiding sending weak forces agaist my most powerful Corps with that one exception listed above.

[madgamer]

I am on Matrix under the same name. I'm surprised to have been noticed over there, as I've only posted a small handful of times and only in the MWIF section IIRC. I'm going to go further in the demo and then probably buy the game.

I tro play against the AI because I enjoy it and I am not that good at a game that requires at least 2 hours per turn for me. One thing you can do is on the setup menu have the AI play a less aggressive
game and It will raid less and tends to defend better.

Madgamer