Upstream the Tennessee river ?

[Dupleix]

I've got a fleet in Savannah, TN, and I want to send it upstream the Tennessee to Chattanooga.
It can't go further than Tishomingo Bend, but I can't understand why.
I tried to send the ships separetely, but neither gunboats, nor ironclads, nor transports, nor scouting squadron can go further.
Any idea ?

[Gray_Lensman]

You can't pass thru Mussel Shoals either direction.... This is as per real history...

edit> In actual history, after the USA captured Chattanooga, the USA built 3 ships upstream of Mussel Shoals. Sometimes also referred to as "Muscle Shoals".

[Dupleix]

You can't pass thru Mussel Shoals either direction.... This is as per real history...

Damned !

Thanks

[Don Stone]

re: Mussel Shoals.

I saw the same thing, and assumed that movement was blocked (as per history). But I couldn't get the *game* to tell me that -- I couldn't find any indication on the map, etc.

Is that right? Is it a "hidden" terrain feature? And if so, are there others?

[Barker]

uscle Shoals in the river is very low and rocky....small flatbottom boats could travers but not the big ones....that is why they built wheeler dam...bring the water level up and power the electric TVA. That is by the way where all my family is from.

Marc

[Jabberwock]

re: Mussel Shoals.

I saw the same thing, and assumed that movement was blocked (as per history). But I couldn't get the *game* to tell me that -- I couldn't find any indication on the map, etc.

Is that right? Is it a "hidden" terrain feature? And if so, are there others?

Making the shoals impassable was a modification to the original game. That's why it's "hidden". I've promised Gray that I will create a new map graphic for the area as soon as I can get my graphics computer set up again (January?).

[Gray_Lensman]

re: Mussel Shoals.

I saw the same thing, and assumed that movement was blocked (as per history). But I couldn't get the *game* to tell me that -- I couldn't find any indication on the map, etc.

Is that right? Is it a "hidden" terrain feature? And if so, are there others?

It's not possible to have a tooltip tell you that naval movement is blocked for that specific region, so I am indeed waiting for some sort of distinguishing graphic from the Jabberwock. The name was later changed to "Mussel Shoals" from Middle Tennessee River to help identify it more easily.

The change is listed in the ACW Updates.rtf file along with dozens (maybe hundreds) of other changes incidentally. This file is located in the main AACW installation folder. Since the game was originally released we've tried to keep all the changes documented in this file and Pocus updates it with every patch.

[Barker]

Why not have the correct name Muscle Shoals....better yet Florence, Sheffeild...it is called the Tri Cities....then there is Moulton to the South east and Russellville to the South...

[Gray_Lensman]

Why not have the correct name Muscle Shoals....better yet Florence, Sheffeild...it is called the Tri Cities....then there is Moulton to the South east and Russellville to the South...

Barker:

Please don't open this argument back up again. Their are references to it as Mussel Shoals... which comes from the Indian translation of the area. Yes, there are also references to it as "Muscle Shoals" which was most likely a distortion of the Americanized Indian name. I went with the Mussel Shoals name not only because of the Indian translation but because Sherman and others referred to it in that context. Also it's shown with that name in the "Official Military Atlas of the Civil War" which is a collection of map plates put together by leading military cartographers immediately after the war was over.

[ATTACH]5370[/ATTACH]

As far as your other suggestions are concerned. Give me some more specific information as to the location of the names your are referring to and I'll check them out and make possible corrections if historic references confirm the suggested names.

[Barker]

Tuscumbia - Helen Keller, ever hear od her?
Sheffield - Weigh Station
Moulton - Running Battle for Hogs Mountain
Russellville - On going skirmishes and minor battles

That area is deep with ACW History, I know for a fact about the battles in that area. The 4th Alabama Cavalry is from there and they were integral in the running defense. Also Streights 1st Alabama US Cav was from that area. That area was deep CSA but also Union.

Next to my GG Grandfathers old house is 3 union troops buried there in the woods from the battles in the area....On maps it may have been Mussell Shoals but family history defines it as Muscle Shoals. You can gleen info of maps but to give a real place a living name is another. That area is also home to Joe Wheeler, Capt AA Russell from Jacksons days. This isn't a debate it is just plain fact.

[Barker]

Since the incorporation of Muscle Shoals in 1923, this city has become known as the fastest growing city in northwest Alabama with a population of over 11,924. Located in the eastern portion of Colbert County, Muscle Shoals is also known as “The Shoals,” along with the cities of Sheffield, Tuscumbia, and Florence. The city of Muscle Shoals is approximately 30 miles south of Tennessee and approximately 20 miles east of Mississippi. The rapidly developing city covers 12 square miles and still has cotton fields within the city limits. Muscle Shoals also touches the banks of the Tennessee River. The Tennessee River is a source of the rich history of Muscle Shoals.

Indians first inhabited the lands bordered by the Tennessee River that we call the Shoals area today. No one knows when the name Muscle Shoals was first used for this area, however, there are many theories of where the name originated. One theory is that at one time there were piles of mussel shells found along the shoals in the Tennessee River. Another theory is that the shape of the river looks like the muscle in a man’s arm, therefore, Muscle Shoals. The last theory comes from several booklets that were published before Muscle Shoals incorporated. This theory states: “Muscle Shoals, the Niagara of the South, derives its name from the Indians, who, attempting to navigate upstream, found the task almost impossible because of the strong current.” Thus came the word muscle, symbolic of the strength required to “paddle a canoe up the rapids.” The Shoals area, including Florence, Sheffield, and Tuscumbia, was first known as the Muscle Shoals district.

[Gray_Lensman]

Tuscumbia - Helen Keller, ever hear od her?
Sheffield - Weigh Station
Moulton - Running Battle for Hogs Mountain
Russellville - On going skirmishes and minor battles

<snip>

Other than Tuscumbia which is already on the map, where are these other names located. In other words are you suggesting that some other city names should be changed to these names? I need more info.

As far as Mussel Shoals is concerned, forget it, I'm not changing the official designation, but you can very easily change the name to anything you want by opening the LocalStrings_ACW.csv file with a text editor and doing a search for "Mussel Shoals". You will find a line with it entered 5 times (one for each language installation). The very first entry is the "English" translation. Feel free to change it to whatever you like. This capability to change the displayed name of a region was added just a few months ago. Also, whatever name you choose to use does not have to match your PBEM opponent's name. (The game still thinks of it as Middle Tennessee River, the original designation).

[Barker]

The first steamboat to pass over the Muscle Shoals and reach Knoxville was the Atlas in 1828. By 1835 steamboats traveled regularly from Knoxville, Tennessee to Decatur, Alabama when water was high. In 1836 a canal was built around the Muscle Shoals by the State of Alabama with Federal aid. The canal was not very successful and by the mid 1800’s the railroads began to take traffic away from the rivers.

[Barker]

you have freezing rivers so why not high water for river traffic...it is fact, since alot is based on textual basis

[Barker]

Gray have you ever travelled in the south to see these places?

[Gray_Lensman]

I might ask you a question. Have you ever thought about searching back thru the past posts to see all the pro/con arguments about Mussel Shoals/Muscle Shoals and the reason it was made impassable? Several posters brought up the fact that it was impassable to both sides during the war and this was somewhat confirmed by researching the subject before making the change. In fact, the Union deliberately constructed 3 new naval gunships upstream to patrol the upstream river after they captured Chattanooga and the surrounding area.

Admittedly, there was a secondary reason for this change and that was to prevent the ahistoric exploit of virtually closing off the area north of the Tennessee river to CSA units by Union naval units, obviously balancing CSA gameplay. All the better since the historical restrictions were there anyhow.

Generally, I don't make these types of changes on my own. I wait for others to make comments, then research their information to see if it stands up.

For your information, over the last year and a half, I have visited Wilson's Creek Battlefield, Pea Ridge Battlefield, Shiloh Battlefield, and Perryville Battlefield. Next spring I also plan to make a swing thru Nashville, Murfreesboro, Chattanooga and the surrounding area which will include Missionary Ridge, Chicamauga, and Lookout Mt. After that, I'm not sure which, but I arrange frequent vacations that coincide with my real life work schedule in order to take these trips and enjoy the history. Is there anything else you wish to ask?

[Barker]

The point I was getting at is this....don't change something for the sake of a wiki comment...I would suggest email the area concerned like the Sons of Confederate Veterens in that area. They would have extremely grand knowledge of the goings on during that period. From units to area history. If you are trying to make a game historical go for the connection that ties it together. For example if you gleen info from Harpers Weekly then that is an abstract of a biased truth. If you get your info from maps done by people other then those from the area then there is a possibility that some things area left out. The reason I brought this up is my family is from that particular area, been there since late 1700's. That is why I am adament on some issues is all. I have been to Vicksburg, Springfeild, Hogs Mountain, Lookout Mountain, Seccessionville, Bentonville, Columbia, Mobile Bay, Sabine Pass, Ft Donelson, Camp Chase, Johnson Island, Corinth, Shiloh (I have a pic of My GG Grandfather under the monument during the reunion in the 20's) My dad told me a story one time they went to Shiloh, The guide was saying this and that and Ed Malone My Grandfather, stood up and said "What are you talking about" That is not the way it was...We were there, they were comming infrom oveer ther...and it went on. Sometimes History gets lost through eyes of another.

[Barker]

Were they comments from people in the area or were they comments from peopl 2000 mile away and never have been there?

[Gray_Lensman]

The Wiki is the absolute last reference I would use because anyone can make an entry to the wiki... Funny you should bring this up, because one individual's argument for the use of Muscle Shoals as the displayed name was the number of "hits" on the web, which is totally irrelevant to the Civil War history itself.

I suggest you use the advanced search function to see which other posters originally brought up the subject. Off hand, I know Jabberwock (one of the betas) was one of them. Your continued insinuation that persons that don't live nearby don't know as much as you is borderline insulting to quite a few persons not to mention the programmer/developers. I suggest you change your approach.

[Barker]

no insult intended. I was just stating my opinion on a relavent issue. The game by far is a great game. From a historical aspect a cut above everyone else. I have never complained about anything. I just approached the Issue of Mussell and you stating it was a distortion of Indian. I took obection to that. I understand the need for accuracy in games. I appreciate that, but Gray do not insult my intelligence nor heritage by stating something like you said. I won't say no more because it is not relavent to the issue. I was just bringing up the point it was Muscle and not Mussell you took offense at anyone suggesting that you may have been mistaken. I was wrong, I apologize for 250 years of family heritage in the area that you mentioned and I am sorry that I was wrong in my ascertion for Muscle....I pray the great Gray forgive my insolence and ignorance

[Spharv2]

Next spring I also plan to make a swing thru Nashville, Murfreesboro, Chattanooga and the surrounding area which will include Missionary Ridge, Chicamauga, and Lookout Mt. Is there anything else you wish to ask?

Oooh...me me!

Got a timeframe for your trip to Chattanooga? I've been wanting to get back up there. If you're going that far, you should go to Atlanta to see the Cyclorama if you haven't been there. Pretty neat place, I make a stop whenever I'm around Atlanta.

[Rafiki]

[color="Blue"]OK, I'm closing this discussion, since I don't see it heading anywhere good, and since it is something we have spent a significant amount of time and energy on before.[/color]

I was just bringing up the point it was Muscle and not Mussell you took offense at anyone suggesting that you may have been mistaken.

[color="Blue"]I'm afraid you are mistaken, Barker. Gray was pointing out that the issue has been debated a lot before and that since good cases could be made for both names, a decision was made.[/color]

I was wrong, I apologize for 250 years of family heritage in the area that you mentioned and I am sorry that I was wrong in my ascertion for Muscle....I pray the great Gray forgive my insolence and ignorance

[color="Blue"]Now, this can hardly be called constructive, can it? [/color]

To summarize:

• The name "Mussel Shoals" is there to stay
• Anyone wanting to change it to something else, be it "Muscle Shoals" or anything else can very easily do this, withit it affecting PBEM or anything else.
• Gray has a very good point about using the search function for the previous iterations of this discussion.

I'm also tempted to make a comment about how you two are comparing the number of ACW battlefields you have visited, but I'll leave that be...