Adjusting Victory Conditions

satisfaction · Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:00 pm

It seems to me that the cities needed to break the morale of the South (which also add to the North making them even tougher) should be adjusted...or at least maybe I can find out how to mod them. Currently you need Richmond (capital defense ai patch will help this become harder), New Orleans (historically taken early in the war, and still a fairly easy target given the Union Navy), Memphis (right near a border state and river and easy to get to once No 10 falls, again taken early in the war) and Nashville (same as Memphis, very near Kentucky and river plus fell early in the war). It seems all these critical locations are on the permimeter of the Confederacy, making them logical targets EARLY in the war. Add to this Richmond being vulnerable and you get wars that end in 1862...which actually would be historically correct given these conditions (except Richmond, but a case can be made that it COULD have fallen given a few different turns plus a McC that could actually advance). I think several more cities should be added, and the importance of the three non Richmond cities reduced. Maybe add Vicksburg and Baton Rouge to simulate closing the Miss, which was a major blow. Also Atlanta, which many felt to be in the "real" deep south and in the heart of the nation. Also Charleston, the place that started it all. Finally perhaps Raleigh and/or Columbia. This would add more strategic cities, deep in the south. They are also all very important from a psychologic/strategic perspective. Given the current level of Athena (AI), I think this would push the war out a few more years and really add to the challenge. Thoughts or comments?

Zoetermeer · Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:58 pm

Actually I don't even think you need all four of the ones you mentioned to do it. I did it as the Union with capturing Memphis and Richmond (along with all the other things north of those cities, Forts Henry & Donelson, Fredericksburg, etc.) in 1862.

Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:10 pm

It also depends on your successes (and losses) on the battlefield.

In the game I'm playing, I'm holding off on going for Richmond, since I want to see how things play out in the west and I'm afraid that taking Richmond will end the game pretty soon (I have taken Memphis, Nashville, Little Rock and Norfolk and am about to assault New Orleans).

What I'd like to see, is an option that makes it harder to win, e.g. a setting that multiplies the amount of NM you need, with choices like 0.75 (for easier wins), 1, 1.25, 1.5 and 2 (or something like that).

Gabriel · Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:11 pm

satisfaction wrote:It seems all these critical locations are on the permimeter of the Confederacy?

I thought the very same when I saw those conditions, "wow, they're all practically on the 'border'".

Winfield S. Hancock · Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:47 pm

There was some discussion of this topic a few weeks ago in another thread. The bottom line is that although the briefing says you can beat the CSA by breaking her morale through taking Nashville, Memphis, Richmond, and New Orleans, this is actually not an automatic victory condition. Rather, it is one way by which you can conceivably break southern morale. There are many other ways to do so as well. Also, interior cities such as Atlanta are quite important to CSA morale and VP, and are worthy objectives as well.

Black Cat · Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:25 pm

satisfaction wrote:It seems to me that the cities needed to break the morale of the South (which also add to the North making them even tougher) should be adjusted...or at least maybe I can find out how to mod them. Currently you need Richmond (capital defense ai patch will help this become harder), New Orleans (historically taken early in the war, and still a fairly easy target given the Union Navy), Memphis (right near a border state and river and easy to get to once No 10 falls, again taken early in the war) and Nashville (same as Memphis, very near Kentucky and river plus fell early in the war). It seems all these critical locations are on the permimeter of the Confederacy, making them logical targets EARLY in the war. Add to this Richmond being vulnerable and you get wars that end in 1862...which actually would be historically correct given these conditions (except Richmond, but a case can be made that it COULD have fallen given a few different turns plus a McC that could actually advance). I think several more cities should be added, and the importance of the three non Richmond cities reduced. Maybe add Vicksburg and Baton Rouge to simulate closing the Miss, which was a major blow. Also Atlanta, which many felt to be in the "real" deep south and in the heart of the nation. Also Charleston, the place that started it all. Finally perhaps Raleigh and/or Columbia. This would add more strategic cities, deep in the south. They are also all very important from a psychologic/strategic perspective. Given the current level of Athena (AI), I think this would push the war out a few more years and really add to the challenge. Thoughts or comments?

Give the AI max benefits and set the Game on hard.

satisfaction · Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:00 pm

I don't have a problem with giving the AI all the help it can, but that seems more like a symptom and not the problem. Like I said, and it seems there is at least one more who agrees, these key cities are all on the border and they all fell in the first year + of the war (except Richmond). I don't think the South was on the verge of collapse after the fall of New Orleans, Memphis and Nashville....as is the case here if you take those cities (union morale will be way up and southern will be down, which will effect battles and soon end the war) In 1864 the attitude was still we'll whip them Yankees when they try to come into the real south (aka Atlanta before Sherman moved down from Chattanooga). Does anyone know how to adjust the value of cities? I'd like to mod this and give it a try. With people playing a good game and beating the AI in 1862 with current rules...I think the AI could last at least another year or more given more to defend and I wouldn't have to let it "cheat".

ps I think the North would have thrown in the towel if there cities that are listed as critical would have fallen...especially in the northwest where copperhead sentiment was strong.

blackbellamy · Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:26 pm

satisfaction · Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:58 pm

Excellent, time to back up my file and start tinkering. I'll post results as I get time. Thanks

Adjusting Victory Conditions

Adjusting Victory Conditions

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