No VP for Louisville KY?

[Major Tom]

I'm playing the April 1861 campaign as Union, against AI opponent. It's July 1861, and I'm pretty sure Kentucky is still neutral.

I have troops in Louisville, Kentucky, as I have since the beginning of the game. The city is clearly uinder my control. But the tooltip says the city is uncontrolled, and on the Objectives screen, Lousiville shows a red flag instead of USA or CSA flag.

What gives? Does this mean I'm getting no VP for Louisville? Do I have to wait until 1862?

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Major Tom]

Definitely not Indians or Partisans -- I don't have any of those.

At the very least, there are the permanently fixed militia that started there. I also have some regular troops in the region, but probably not inside the city.

I'll have to check this when I get home from work.

I haven't played the game that much, but I've never seen a red flag in the city list on the Objectives page. All of the cities have always been controlled by one side or the other.

Thanks for the response, Gray. I'll post again later when I can provide more detailed info.

[Rafiki]

Methinks that you need to have line troops (not militia) in a city to gain VP when loyalty (or is it military control) is below 50%.

[arsan]

It's loyalty

[Major Tom]

Well, I'm sure that must explain it then.

Thanks!

[Le Ricain]

Loyalty in Louiville is not going to be a problem for the Union provided he has not lost the region.

To gain VP's you need to garrison with Regular units. Militia will do the job.

[Major Tom]

Well, it definitely was a militia problem. I had two militia units in Louisville, but was not getting the victory points. I moved a line infantry unit inside the city and immediately started getting VPs.

Loyalty in the region was below 50%.

Kentucky was still neutral.

So, yes, it was a militia problem. It's just odd that this is not mentioned anywhere in the manual. And with just this one occurance it's hard to tell exactly what the rule is. Does it apply to all VP cities, or just border states, or just neutral-state Kentucky cities? Does it apply to all militia, or just home state militia?

It actually makes sense to me that home state militia might have about the same degree of loyalty as their state's population, and hence would not give you complete control of a city if the loyalty is low. In fact, that's the kind of deep detail that makes this game great. But it would not make sense for the same thing to apply to militia from another state.

I'm going to test this tonight by moving the line infantry out of Louisville and moving some Ohio militia in, and then see if I get the VP's.

[arsan]

Well, it definitely was a militia problem. I had two militia units in Louisville, but was not getting the victory points. I moved a line infantry unit inside the city and immediately started getting VPs.

Loyalty in the region was below 50%.

Kentucky was still neutral.

So, yes, it was a militia problem. It's just odd that this is not mentioned anywhere in the manual. And with just this one occurance it's hard to tell exactly what the rule is. Does it apply to all VP cities, or just border states, or just neutral-state Kentucky cities? Does it apply to all militia, or just home state militia?

It actually makes sense to me that home state militia might have about the same degree of loyalty as their state's population, and hence would not give you complete control of a city if the loyalty is low. In fact, that's the kind of deep detail that makes this game great. But it would not make sense for the same thing to apply to militia from another state.

I'm going to test this tonight by moving the line infantry out of Louisville and moving some Ohio militia in, and then see if I get the VP's.

Hi!
Are you sure its not on the manual??
The rule figures on the WIA manual (the last i have read). Can't remember about the AACW one.
The rule is determined by the loyalty of the region. No matter where.
It works like this for strategic and objective towns.
For what i know it affects all militia and irregular units. You will need a regular infantry/cavalry unit to get the proper control of the town (and the VP as consecuence)..
I understand the rule as the need to proper garrison and "occupy" unloyal regions to have them controlled. This serious occupation forces have to be be regular soldiers, not non professional militias.
Probably this is more than anything a gameplay rule.... To make occupation of enemy areas costlier.
On your own territory (loyal to you) objective and strategic towns are considered controlled by you even if you have no unit there. As long as no enemy unit appears.
Regards

[Major Tom]

Actually, the manual only says this:

"To control of a structure, you must simply be the latest to have occupied it with a combat unit.

Note: You don’t necessarily need to leave a unit garrisoning the structure, although it is good practice to do so. Indians and partisans will only take control of a city if the population in the area is friendly (51% Loyalty or more). They cannot capture depots or forts and will instead destroy them."

And this:

"You don’t need to garrison objectives in order to earn VP’s."

So according to the manual, the rule should only apply to partisans and indians, not militia.

Also, the rule just says they will not take control if loyalty is less than 51%. But in this case, the USA already had control of Louisville at the start of the game, and the militia in question were always there since they are locked. At some point, when I had only militia in the city, I lost control. The U.S. flag still flew over the city, so the only way I could tell I had lost control was on the list of VP cities on the Objectives screen, which I then verified on the map with the tooltip.

[Gray_Lensman]

deleted

[Major Tom]

Thanks, Gray.

Now I think I fully understand. It's not just about taking control of a city, but keeping it, too. Militia cannot keep control of a city if loyalty drops below 51%, even if the city was previously under control.

[arsan]

Hi!
In case it helps to clarify the issue (although i think you already got it right :thumbsup here is what WIA manual (the most recent) says about this on the Victory Points section

"Important Note: In order to gain credit for a captured Objective or Strategic city, a player must garrison the location with a regular unit (i.e. no Irregulars, Militias) if the region has a Loyalty Rating less than 51%."

Regards