Hi there from what little I know about this subject as I understand it the advantage of horse artillery was an increased rate of fire during combat, since they could fire and move to a new position on the battlefield more quickly than standard artillery.
Like most I first assumed faster movement over land while on the march making them an ideal compliment to a force designed for speed over long distances.
However from a previous game it has been explained that since all artillery was wheeled and equipped with horses to draw them during march there was no advantage to "horse artillery" in that respect. So then I was wondering in this game how the advantage is manifest? I assume there must be some difference between horse artillery and the standard 6 pounder but I cannot determine what it is.
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Major Dilemma
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Gray_Lensman
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Major Dilemma wrote:Hi there from what little I know about this subject as I understand it the advantage of horse artillery was an increased rate of fire during combat, since they could fire and move to a new position on the battlefield more quickly than standard artillery.
Like most I first assumed faster movement over land while on the march making them an ideal compliment to a force designed for speed over long distances.
However from a previous game it has been explained that since all artillery was wheeled and equipped with horses to draw them during march there was no advantage to "horse artillery" in that respect. So then I was wondering in this game how the advantage is manifest? I assume there must be some difference between horse artillery and the standard 6 pounder but I cannot determine what it is.
At the moment, you've been informed correctly. However, we have a beta specifically studying the different artillery and their usefulness during the war and one of the items he's looking at is the 3 inch ordnance gun which seems to be the most prevalent horse artillery piece used historically. For some reason in the initial game design it seems the 6 inch gun was used as the basis for the horse artillery unit. Not sure when this will be corrected in an update just yet. Have to wait until the holidays are over and everyone is back and settled in again.
At least for the Napoleonic Wars the advantage of Horse Artillery was that not only guns were horse drawn, but also the artillery crew was mounted. In that period field artillery crews walked along the guns. The basic difference was that field artillery kept pace with infantry while horse artillery kept pace with cavalry.
However I must say that in AACW cavalry has a very fast march rate, that Clovis told me it was historically accurate, and was much faster than Napoleonic cavalry (that in any case in NCP can move at motor speed). So maybe horse arty could not sustain the pace of cavalry in ACW.
However I must say that in AACW cavalry has a very fast march rate, that Clovis told me it was historically accurate, and was much faster than Napoleonic cavalry (that in any case in NCP can move at motor speed). So maybe horse arty could not sustain the pace of cavalry in ACW.
Ok, according to this link
http://www.civilwarhome.com/artilleryterms.htm
"HORSE ARTILLERY: Official term for those field batteries assigned to work with cavalry. In order to keep up with the troopers, each horse artilleryman rode his own horse"
The difference is still valid for ACW.
BTW apparently the most common gun used by Horse Artillery was the 3in Rifle Ordnance
http://www.civilwarhome.com/artilleryterms.htm
"HORSE ARTILLERY: Official term for those field batteries assigned to work with cavalry. In order to keep up with the troopers, each horse artilleryman rode his own horse"
The difference is still valid for ACW.
BTW apparently the most common gun used by Horse Artillery was the 3in Rifle Ordnance
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Major Dilemma
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Well that is not what I was told but whatever. if the speed coefficient is 120 or 130% then I can see some meaning to having horse art in the game but since it is the same as inf and art at 100% I do not see any advantage over regular art.
Actually this is about speed coefficiency in general when a general has an infantry rating for his speed of 100% and he is the leader of a cav only brigade does he slow down the cav brigade? Does it make any difference if he is combined with a cav regiment? thanks.
As for the rate of fire the reason I mentioned it was that from what I was told the horse artillery was able to fire and then move to a new position on the battlefield and fire again at a faster rate than regular artillery. I believe it was a combination of the small guns and the hitching mechanism or the fact that the horses were hooked up differently.
This idea that the horse artillery also had horses for the men who were in the unit and not just enough horses to pull the guns makes sense to me as you have explained it.
How is the speed coefficincy expressed as 100% in the game when you say that the units move at cav speed? I guess one way to test would be to move a cav unit across the map with and then without horse art and see what the difference is.
Actually this is about speed coefficiency in general when a general has an infantry rating for his speed of 100% and he is the leader of a cav only brigade does he slow down the cav brigade? Does it make any difference if he is combined with a cav regiment? thanks.
As for the rate of fire the reason I mentioned it was that from what I was told the horse artillery was able to fire and then move to a new position on the battlefield and fire again at a faster rate than regular artillery. I believe it was a combination of the small guns and the hitching mechanism or the fact that the horses were hooked up differently.
This idea that the horse artillery also had horses for the men who were in the unit and not just enough horses to pull the guns makes sense to me as you have explained it.
How is the speed coefficincy expressed as 100% in the game when you say that the units move at cav speed? I guess one way to test would be to move a cav unit across the map with and then without horse art and see what the difference is.
Hi
The speed difference between horse/normal artillery is reflected in game using different movement types for each.
Horse arty uses cavalry movement at 100% speed.
Normal arty uses wheeled movement (the one used by supply units) at 100%. Probably some high caliber use a slower rate of wheeled movement (siege guns??).
You can check all of this by yourself on teh units detail window
Both normal and horse arty have 100% speed, but cavalry and wheeled movement types have different terrain costs, so the result is that chorse arty is much faster than normal , specially in any kind of rough terrain or with mud.
Cavalry regiments use also cavalry movement type, normally at 120 or 130%. SO if they carry horse arty with them their pace will be slowed to 100% to wait for the guns. If they carry normal arty they will be slowed down to wheeled movemnet rates. Much slower.
Its really easy to check all this. Just load the Shiloh Scenario as the south and do some test with Wharton stack (cav and horse arty units), and move a normal arty there form the main CSA stacks at Corinth if you want to.
Regarding ROF, i don't think the supposed different tactical use of horse arty on the battlefield can be represented correctly by a higher ROF.
The aggressive use of horse or any other arty on a battle depends highly of the tactical development, terrain, leaders, enemy dispositions, crew quality...
lost of details you cannot represent of strategic/operational scale.
And that have little in common with ROF, IMHO.
Regards
The speed difference between horse/normal artillery is reflected in game using different movement types for each.
Horse arty uses cavalry movement at 100% speed.
Normal arty uses wheeled movement (the one used by supply units) at 100%. Probably some high caliber use a slower rate of wheeled movement (siege guns??).
You can check all of this by yourself on teh units detail window
Both normal and horse arty have 100% speed, but cavalry and wheeled movement types have different terrain costs, so the result is that chorse arty is much faster than normal , specially in any kind of rough terrain or with mud.
Cavalry regiments use also cavalry movement type, normally at 120 or 130%. SO if they carry horse arty with them their pace will be slowed to 100% to wait for the guns. If they carry normal arty they will be slowed down to wheeled movemnet rates. Much slower.
Its really easy to check all this. Just load the Shiloh Scenario as the south and do some test with Wharton stack (cav and horse arty units), and move a normal arty there form the main CSA stacks at Corinth if you want to.
Regarding ROF, i don't think the supposed different tactical use of horse arty on the battlefield can be represented correctly by a higher ROF.
The aggressive use of horse or any other arty on a battle depends highly of the tactical development, terrain, leaders, enemy dispositions, crew quality...
lost of details you cannot represent of strategic/operational scale.
And that have little in common with ROF, IMHO.
Regards
Horse arty doesn´t have a hiher ROF. Instead it has a higher initiative, TQ and assult value, which i think it is ok to modell the ability to change position faster.
OTOH I have checked my sources and it seems that the gun mostly in use in the Horse arty was the 3in Ordnance, for instance at Gettysburg the Horse Brigade had all batteries exclusively equipped with the 3in. So IMO what we should think is changing the fighting statistics of Ahorse arty in the game, as it is rated as light arty.
Edit: In fact, the Union Horse Arty does have statistics corresponding to 10lb Parrot (basically the same as 3in Ordnance) but the CSA Horse Arty have 6lb guns. This is clearly an unbalancing mistake. Jagger when he did the Artillery mod back one and a half years ago was projecting to fix that modelling a CSA 10lb Horse Arty battery, but apparently the fix didn´t make the cut. This is something that should be corrected the sooner the better.
OTOH I have checked my sources and it seems that the gun mostly in use in the Horse arty was the 3in Ordnance, for instance at Gettysburg the Horse Brigade had all batteries exclusively equipped with the 3in. So IMO what we should think is changing the fighting statistics of Ahorse arty in the game, as it is rated as light arty.
Edit: In fact, the Union Horse Arty does have statistics corresponding to 10lb Parrot (basically the same as 3in Ordnance) but the CSA Horse Arty have 6lb guns. This is clearly an unbalancing mistake. Jagger when he did the Artillery mod back one and a half years ago was projecting to fix that modelling a CSA 10lb Horse Arty battery, but apparently the fix didn´t make the cut. This is something that should be corrected the sooner the better.
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