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Sunray
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Toombs instead of Davis, interesting 'what if?'

Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:34 am

In the game, Robert Toombs is an obscure Brigadier General. But he could have had an important political carreer, he was a serious contender for the CSA Presidency.

Before the war, he was a pro-slavery senator and he supported Breckinridge in the presidential campaign of 1860.
He returned to Georgia soon after the election of Lincoln and led the fight for secession there, with the ambitions for becoming the president of the new Confederate nation.
Toombs was intelligent, a good debater, popular and respected by all factions throughout the South, but on February 9, 1861, the constitutional convention at Montgomery named Davis as president of the CSA.

Which leads to an interesting what-if: what if Toombs, rather than Davis, had been elected president of the CSA?

a) no civil war, since the CS government would have had as its first priority "don't fire the first shot!" (later, Toombs was indeed the only opponent in the Cabinet to the bombardment of Ft Sumter).

b) the war started under another pretext (example : Leonidas Polk would station troops in Kentucky without bothering to clear his decision first with the CS government), but 6 months later. This delay could have a significant effect on the South preparation for war (exchange of cotton for much more war materials).

Could this lead to an interesting variant ? :bonk:

Cheers

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Jabberwock
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Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:58 pm

Howard Cobb was the early leading contender for the CSA presidency. Jefferson Davis was a "Who could we possibly agree on instead of Cobb?" candidate. It was a deliberate snub against Georgia by the Confederate Congress, and the problem with Toombs was that he was also from Georgia.

I would like to see a game with Cobb or Toombs running the Confederacy, and Davis as Sec. of War. If we could organize our own administration (with litle counters and pictures and rankings and ratings to tweak), that would be awesome.
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Conhugeco
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Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:03 pm

Jabberwock, why the deliberate snub to Georgia?

Dick
In response to a critic: "General Lee surrendered to me. He did not surrender to any other Union General, although I believe there were several efforts made in that direction before I assumed command of the armies in Virginia." -- Ulysses Grant

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Jabberwock
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Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:12 pm

IIRC, it was partly due to the fact that everyone assumed Atlanta would be the CSA capitol, partly personal animosity towards Cobb. I may be wrong. Somebody please correct me if I am.
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Johnny Canuck
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Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:53 pm

According to McPherson, the Georgia delegation did not unite behind Toombs, Cobb, or Stephens, and Davis was favoured by Virginia's two senators. Also, Toombs' heavy drinking appeared to work against him.

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Jabberwock
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Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:52 pm

Thank you.

That kind of political maneuvering would certainly be an interesting area to expand this game.
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Conhugeco
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Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:56 pm

Thanks to both.

And hello Mr. Canuck.

Dick
In response to a critic: "General Lee surrendered to me. He did not surrender to any other Union General, although I believe there were several efforts made in that direction before I assumed command of the armies in Virginia." -- Ulysses Grant

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HMSWarspite
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OT but I couldn't resist

Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:21 pm

A "civil" war: Dear Sir, please enjoy the canister I am preparing to unload in your direction. Kindest Regards!"


Battle of Fontenoy, 11th May 1745
Lord Charles Hay: " Gentlemen of the French Guard, fire first!"
Comte d'Auterriches: "Sir - the French Guards never fire first. After you!"

Attributed exchange, from The Dictionary of War Quotations
I know: wrong war, wrong country, wrong century. But she's my favourite:nuts:

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Jabberwock
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Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:07 am

Lol
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Sunray
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Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:11 pm

Jabberwock wrote:IIRC, it was partly due to the fact that everyone assumed Atlanta would be the CSA capitol, partly personal animosity towards Cobb. I may be wrong. Somebody please correct me if I am.


According to McKitrick ("The American Party Systems", in "Party politics and the Union and Confederate war efforts", 1967) : five of the six delegations present in Montgomery, each with one vote, supported Toombs. But then someone spreads the rumor that Georgia itself wanted not Toombs but Cobb. Under this misapprehension, Cobb being somewhat controversial, the other delegations switched to Davis. Cobb's brother was maybe at the bottom of this...

Cheers

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Jabberwock
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Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:32 am

"As Buchanan's Secretary of the Treasury, Cobb has done more for the Confederacy than any other man alive--he left the Northern government without any money in the till. He did not even leave old 'Buck' two quarters to put on his eyes when he dies." - Robert Toombs
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Von Jeager
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Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:34 am

If Toombs or Cobb be the choice for CiC, how about making the case for Jeff Davis as a general now since he is not commander in chief? Davis was obviously a pretty good soldier himself considering his rides with Lee.

After all, he came from the same mold of the Mexican War leaders and was a decorated combat soldier... with a lot of prestige.

eh?


VJ

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LMUBill
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Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:19 pm

Von Jeager wrote:If Toombs or Cobb be the choice for CiC, how about making the case for Jeff Davis as a general now since he is not commander in chief? Davis was obviously a pretty good soldier himself considering his rides with Lee.

After all, he came from the same mold of the Mexican War leaders and was a decorated combat soldier... with a lot of prestige.

eh?


VJ


He was also Secretary of War during the Pierce administration. Davis sent a young George McClellan to be an observer during the Crimean War, an event which had a large influence over McClellan's future planning and philosophy. That might have been the greatest act Davis did to help the CSA :niark:

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