AGEOD Forums

If this is at all inappropriate for posting in the AGEOD forums, please let me know -- and my apologies in advance. The reason I am asking this here is because it is the one forum I know of, with so many dedicated Civil War gamers. So please feel free to delete if necessary.

What I want to know is, who on here has played "Forge of Freedom" for the PC? How does it compare to AACW?

I was thinking of hunting down a copy for purchase (VERY hard to do!), but I have no idea why they want $60 for a PC game that is over 2 years old! Any suggestions as to why this is the case as well?

AACW is easier for me. More fun too.

CWNut77,

FOF is readily available from Matrix Games (the publisher):

http://www.digitalriver.com/dr/v2/ec_Main.Entry17C?SID=45905&SP=10023&CID=0&PID=883861&PN=1&V1=883861&CUR=840&DSP=&PGRP=0&ABCODE=&CACHE_ID=0

Of course, our games are absolutely the best, but then what would you expect to hear on this Web site?

Perhaps, a good place to raise your question which would not have any preconceived biases would be at the forums of:

http://www.wargamer.com

In fact, if you do a search, I would be that these two games have been compared previously as BOA1 was also compared with Hussar's For Liberty too.

I hope that helps.

I've played a little FOF...Something about this game is just better. I think it has to do with the nature of the war being so confined. I mean it's not like "Crown of Glory" where you can cut deals and make allies over a several years-long period. The Civil War is just the Civil War. Yanno 5 years in a box and that's about it....and I really feel like AGEOD has found the manner in which the period was meant to be played on the strategic level.

Now I would HIGHLY reccommend you try the Take Command Series for a great tactical experience. Although if you prefer something a little more cut and dry, John Tiller's Campaigns Series of Civil War games are pretty good too. Although the AI in most of those is just about down-right idiotic. You kinda hafta get a PBEM goin' there.

Cheers!

Thanks MarkShot -- I will have to check that site out.

Can anyone tell me, however, why the game costs so much?

I would still like to hear opinions on here, however, if that is ok, even if there are biases.

I liked Talonsofts old battlefield series but only on hot seat play against human opposition

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Gray_Lensman wrote:AGEod is a French company, selling into the USA market. Since the US dollar has been allowed to decrease in value vs all sorts of other world currencys, the price of outside products sold into the US market has to increase for them to keep their profit margin. This effects oil prices also to quite a degree, so we can thank our US financial wizards for allowing the US dollar value to slide so much.

Amen! Down with the speculators! (and Chancelor--eh, ehm....I mean President Bush.)

Gray_Lensman wrote:AGEod is a French company, selling into the USA market. Since the US dollar has been allowed to decrease in value vs all sorts of other world currencys, the price of outside products sold into the US market has to increase for them to keep their profit margin. This effects oil prices also to quite a degree, so we can thank our US financial wizards for allowing the US dollar value to slide so much.

Thanks -- although, I was referring to why FoF costs $60, not AACW, which after playing I would pay $100 for!

Markshot, tell me they're not actually paying you money over here ;-D

BTW, I own both and enjoy AACW more than FOF. I just can't get into the tactical battles, which seem way too slow for my liking. If they threw in Take Command: Second Manassas for the battles, it would be a godsend.

MarkShot wrote:CWNut77,

FOF is readily available from Matrix Games (the publisher):

http://www.digitalriver.com/dr/v2/ec_Main.Entry17C?SID=45905&SP=10023&CID=0&PID=883861&PN=1&V1=883861&CUR=840&DSP=&PGRP=0&ABCODE=&CACHE_ID=0

Of course, our games are absolutely the best, but then what would you expect to hear on this Web site?

Perhaps, a good place to raise your question which would not have any preconceived biases would be at the forums of:

http://www.wargamer.com

In fact, if you do a search, I would be that these two games have been compared previously as BOA1 was also compared with Hussar's For Liberty too.

I hope that helps.

CWNut77 wrote:Thanks -- although, I was referring to why FoF costs $60, not AACW, which after playing I would pay $100 for!

IIRC, the developers who work with Matrix are allowed to set their own prices. I guess they think it's the War in the Pacific of Civil War games.

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Hey Bush and Brown are in a race to see who can destroy thier national currency first - Bushy is edging it I would say. The Brit pound has been on the slide against everything except the Yankee Dollar for the last 3 years at least.

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Gray_Lensman wrote:Though, I started this with an explanation about price difference, we really don't need to see the thread devolve into a political discussion.

If I can import new games from Stateside or games that are not readily available on my side of the pond, I would happily do so at present exchange rates. Importing from Continental Europe though is now a non starter for us Brits.

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I think this one of the best if not the best War Game dedicated to ACW that I have played and well worth every penny. I would probably buy it for a lot more than I paid for it - that appraisal would not extend to other games or should I say other games companys - for instance I would not pay a single dime/penny for any game by the awful Electronic Arts but that is my opinion.

I think FoF and AACW are actually different enough to be somewhat complementary. FoF's strategic/operational focus is less detailed than AACW's, but the tactical engine does a strong job of making the player care about tactics and the specific abilities of specific units. The integration of the tactical engine into the operational level is the highlight of FoF, and I find it enjoyable.

AACW's purely strategic/operational focus offers a different gaming experience: more detailed, more "granular," more historically nuanced. For instance, units are given more detail and subject to more variables in AACW, provinces are smaller (allowing more precise movement and control), etc.. FoF lacks an event engine, making the course of the war in FoF feel more generic.

I think of AACW as the superior historical wargame of the Civil War, while FoF is a runner-up that adds the fun element of hex-based brigade-level combat.

Crimguy wrote:Markshot, tell me they're not actually paying you money over here ;-D

It's actually the other way around, I paid them money and bought piece of the company. It's actually the only game studio and non-publicly traded company that I have invested in (besides my own business).

Yes, AGE Studio is a French company, but the Team at large (volunteers) spans the globe. However, I do believe that I am the only non-French partner. I do various things here and there for the Studio, but I don't beta test/SQA anymore. Five years of beta testing for Panther Games, pretty much burned me out. Now, I just want to play games if I find free time and feel up to it.

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MarkShot wrote:It's actually the other way around, I paid them money and bought piece of the company. It's actually the only game studio and non-publicly traded company that I have invested in (besides my own business).

Yes, AGE Studio is a French company, but the Team at large (volunteers) spans the globe. However, I do believe that I am the only non-French partner. I do various things here and there for the Studio, but I don't beta test/SQA anymore. Five years of beta testing for Panther Games, pretty much burned me out. Now, I just want to play games if I find free time and feel up to it.

So no more mini guides?

oldspec4 wrote:So no more mini guides?

OldSpec4,

He ... he ... I was wondering if anyone was going to notice whether the by now the usual pre-release AAR/Mini-Guide for BFTB is no where to be found? Well, I know HansBolter has done some AAR work. Yes, those Mini-Guides were among the top promotion tools for the series.

However, I was lucky to even get to do the COTA Mini-Guide. I had been out of the cardiac ward (heart attack) for just a couple of weeks when I started writing it. Eddy and Ray was toying around with the idea of new marketting slogans like "COTA - a combat experience so intense that it will stop your heart!". Yep, that Mini-Guide gave me something to do and keep my mind off of various "what ifs".

Well, rest assured, BFTB is going to be a real kick *ss game, even without a Mini-Guide. And, of course, over here, we got WIA coming out soon and VGN is still under development.

Gray_Lensman wrote:About game pricing:

The War Gaming market is a niche market. As such, the relatively small gaming companies that are providing games for this market cannot expect to sell the overall quantities of games that the larger companies are producing. They make up for this in a lot of ways by trying to produce quality products that cater to this niche market and also, btw, they tend to be a lot more directly responsive to gamers needs. All this requires man-hours, whether it be conversing with the gamers directly, fixing game code flaws, or designing new game products.

Now since we are talking about a niche market, but a large requirement in man-hours to provide such quality products, they have to charge what they perceive to be a fair price for the amount of man-hours they have to expend to produce the game. Comparing and expecting their prices to be as low as mass-marketed games is rather unfair. I've been amazed that the prices they charge is as low as they are. In my opinion both FoF and AACW are well worth what they are asking for, and I would easily pay $75 or more for them, since the $ amount per hour of enjoyment I receive from them is exceedingly low.

Now THAT explains it -- I feel dumb for not thinking of this before. Well said. I should also state that, as a fan who follows the video game industry (but one who has so much less time to devote to multiple games any more...family life ), the reason war games are so niche and don't sell high volumes any more, is because the kids don't buy them. The teens don't buy them either...which leaves those faithful to the hobby, namely those who have either a love of history or grew up with the table-top goodness of boardgaming. Personally I am 30 years old and believe myself to be among the youth in the wargaming community, though AACW is the only wargame I am playing at this time (and no offense intended with the age remark people )

MarkShot wrote:OldSpec4,

He ... he ... I was wondering if anyone was going to notice whether the by now the usual pre-release AAR/Mini-Guide for BFTB is no where to be found? Well, I know HansBolter has done some AAR work. Yes, those Mini-Guides were among the top promotion tools for the series.

However, I was lucky to even get to do the COTA Mini-Guide. I had been out of the cardiac ward (heart attack) for just a couple of weeks when I started writing it. Eddy and Ray was toying around with the idea of new marketting slogans like "COTA - a combat experience so intense that it will stop your heart!". Yep, that Mini-Guide gave me something to do and keep my mind off of various "what ifs".

Well, rest assured, BFTB is going to be a real kick *ss game, even without a Mini-Guide. And, of course, over here, we got WIA coming out soon and VGN is still under development.

Meant to ask -- what is BFTB and WIA? COTA?

Are the only AGEOD games available now, BOA, AACW and Napoleon?

MarkShot wrote:OldSpec4,

He ... he ... I was wondering if anyone was going to notice whether the by now the usual pre-release AAR/Mini-Guide for BFTB is no where to be found? Well, I know HansBolter has done some AAR work. Yes, those Mini-Guides were among the top promotion tools for the series.

However, I was lucky to even get to do the COTA Mini-Guide. I had been out of the cardiac ward (heart attack) for just a couple of weeks when I started writing it. Eddy and Ray was toying around with the idea of new marketting slogans like "COTA - a combat experience so intense that it will stop your heart!". Yep, that Mini-Guide gave me something to do and keep my mind off of various "what ifs".

Well, rest assured, BFTB is going to be a real kick *ss game, even without a Mini-Guide. And, of course, over here, we got WIA coming out soon and VGN is still under development.

Well, the basics of BFTB gameplay should be much the same as HTTR and COTA (and probably RDOA too) so I'll have to dust off your old guides again . Also will be picking up both WIA and VGN when available.

CWNut77 wrote:Meant to ask -- what is BFTB and WIA? COTA?

Are the only AGEOD games available now, BOA, AACW and Napoleon?

COTA - Conquest of the Aegean. Panther Games pausable tactical game. Hex gaming without the hexes, and without the turns. One of the best games (and AI's) ever.

BFTB - Battles for the Bulge - Latest product from Panther Games. Due out (maybe if we're really lucky) in August.

VGN - Vainglory of Nations. Upcoming AGEod title. Looks interesting.

WIA - No clue.

WIA - Wars In America (BOA2)

FoF and AACW can't be compared. FOF has a whole manager for settlements that is missing from AACW and a monthly installment basis for the foreign intervention. Another thing FOF has is the weapons and technologies and in overall the feeling that if you have the funds (retrieving which is not easy and it's all up to the player's choices) you can buy better troops.

All containers and leaders train, the only similar things are the VP/NM system.

I suggest anyone who hasn't tried FOF to buy it because it's a great game. It is of course much different from AACW which dwells into tactical details whereas FOF is deeper in the managerial/political sides of the war (Governors' influences).

The AI of FOF is a very troublesome opponent with its logics (and as Pocus would say, it is because it's got an easier map/movements and assemble/containers/initiative picture compared to AACWs), however, if you alter the settings, the AI can become very very difficult to beat. I have been in totally desperate situations in FOF with CSA and lost actually more times than i won. Everyone can custom-taylor the difficulties as they like...i think after 1 year i found my favourite settings with an AI that doesn't cheat on the die rolls but where the USA has a superior manpower/economic advantage on CSA...and of course i play CSA

The weak side of FOF is this Detailed combat on hex map option. That's a total misery to my eyes but of course you can play quick or instant (i prefer the instant).

Some expansions are being developed as we speak and the base of a project for FoF2 is in progress as well.

Can't say more, sorry

Gray_Lensman wrote:AGEod is a French company, selling into the USA market. Since the US dollar has been allowed to decrease in value vs all sorts of other world currencys, the price of outside products sold into the US market has to increase for them to keep their profit margin. This effects oil prices also to quite a degree, so we can thank our US financial wizards for allowing the US dollar value to slide so much.

Hurrah for markets!

GShock -- thanks, you have given me a nice summary of the game. At the moment I am tied up with AACW (I can rarely play multiple games at one time any more, let alone multiple WARGAMES at one time LOL), but maybe someday I will pick up FOF. Another interesting aspect I found was the leaders in FOF -- over 1000 of them???

In response to another post -- Panther Games eh? Seems like this underground wargaming community has a lot more to offer than I at first realized...