PC woes

[Hobbes]

Hi folks, I thought I would call upon your collective brilliance to solve a problem I have. I started playing Far Cry 3 a month ago and it worked fine for 2 weeks apart from an initial crash during the opening cut scene. Now if I try and load it lasts for 5 minutes max before I get a crash. I have tried old, current and beta drivers to no avail. I have removed the PC battery and set BIOS back to default but no difference. It's not dust or temperature that is causing the problem. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Chris

[Boomer]

Are you absolutely sure it's not the temperature? Running a program like Speedfan or Core Temp can read off exact core and cpu temps. My last PC died as a result of a burned out heat sink and hard drive... running anything intensive would cause the dreaded blue screen of death. Are your crashea CTD or entire system crashes/reboots?

If you're only having the problem with Far Cry, you could always try and eliminate the worries by reducing settings. Other than that, it's just a matter of testing different causes. Update video drivers, check core temps, run virus programs, etc etc.

[Hobbes]

Thanks Boomer. I'll check the temps but I can't see why that would be a reason as it now often crashes (reboot) when I first enter the game. Sometimes it doesn't even reboot and I have to leave the PC - eventually it will boot up again after 5 minutes or so. Why would it run fine for 2 weeks and now hardly at all (but occasionally it will still run for a couple of hours). I have the same problem with Skyrim.

Cheers,
Chris

[Philippe]

This probably won't solve anything at all, but because your problem (as I understand it) is only happening with one game, it might be something as simple as a memory leak and/or background programs eating up too much RAM.

I used to turn my nose up at programs like the one I'm about to describe, thinking that I could do the same or better by just going into task manager and shutting a few unwanted programs off. But I recently noticed that a game developer (who knows more about these things than I do) swears by this, so I decided to give it a try.

I now have a lot more RAM than I used to have, and have even managed to remove a few noxious programs that do nothing but cause memory leaks and that I have been trying to get rid of for over a year.

The best part is that it's free (or at least the simple version is) and that you can download it from CNET (which means that if you google it and think you've found the place to download it from, you don't have to worry about a site masquerading as the download site. The only drawback is that it will try to set up Yahoo.com as your home page (simple enough to stop) and will add a few features to your browser that you probably don't want and don't need (but that are easy to disable). They also try to scare you into buying their product, but I can live with that because they provide so much for free.

The program is called AdvancedSystemCare 6.2 (free version) and you can download it from CNET.

It also has a lot of programs that mirror the functionality of Windows XP programs, only unlike the Microsoft versions, these seem to work. (Case in point -- I have Windows XP and couldn't get rid of Searchindexer -- which was causing huge memory leaks and crashes and doesn't even do what it's supposed to -- and couldn't get rid of it no matter what I did. AdvancedSystemCare's uninstaller got it out of my computer).

[Hobbes]

Thanks Philipe. I'll give that a try - but this is happening with more than one game (Skyrim as well) and I still don't understand why the game was fine for two weeks and is now not (also why I get a reboot before I even get into the game proper sometimes). Taking the battery out or reinstalling drivers did seem to make a difference but it seems with ever decreasing duration. If there is no battery and no power supply how can the PC remember that it is now rubbish?
Apart from the files on the hard drive is there anything else in a PC that has a memory without power?

Cheers,
Chris

[Carnium]

What OS do you have, which PSU, how much RAM and what is the size of your virtual memory?
We will solve your problem my friend

[Hobbes]

Thanks Uros. My PC spec below. I haven't actually told the full story here as I didn't want to type pages. But here goes.
I bought the PC 3 years ago and it was fine for a month or so (even though I can't remember what games I was playing then).
I started having problems as above with graphic intensive games. I finally called the supplier and they immediately told me to take out the battery.
This actually worked and I had no problems for a month or two. Then I started getting problems again and so took out the battery again.
This worked but only for a few weeks. The more I took the battery out the less time I got between crashes. Eventually the PC would not even work outside of
graphic intensive games and even started to turn itself off when it wasn't being used. Sometimes when you switched it on it could take up to 8 hours before it would boot up. I sent it back. When it was returned there was a note saying they had updated the drivers and it seemed fine. I though that won't help as I had already tried driver updates. Amazingly it worked fine for the next year and a half or so. Now the same thing is happening again - the more I take the battery out and update the drivers the less time between crashes and it has started to not boot occasionally when I try and turn it on in the morning (but does so within 5 minutes or so at the moment - the 8 hour wait hasn't happened yet but I feel it's going in that direction). How can playing a game make a PC progressively less stable - even when you are not playing the game? I have checked every driver I can see and they all seem to be up to date.

Processor (CPU) AMD PHENOM II X4 955 (3.20GHz/8MB CACHE/AM3) - BLACK EDITION
Motherboard ASUS® M4A87TD/USB3: DUAL DDR3,SATA 6.0GB/s, USB 3.0
Memory (RAM) 4GB SAMSUNG DDR3 DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 2GB)
Graphics Card 1GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX460 GDDR5 PCI EXPRESS - DirectX® 11
Memory - 1st Hard Disk 500GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
Power Supply & Case Cooling CORSAIR 650W PSU (TX650) 80+ ULTRA QUIET
Processor Cooling SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE CPU COOLER
Sound Card ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Operating System Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence

Cheers,
Chris

[Carnium]

Hiya Chris,

Your specification looks quite ok.
Have you ever tried using a different graphic card? Has you computer an onboard integrated graphic chip?
Years ago I had strange problems with integrated onboard sound card. Could you try disabling it?

[Hobbes]

I've always used the same graphics card. As far as I know I don't have an integrated graphic chip - I wouldn't expect a PC with a graphics card to also have an integrated chip? I've disabled the NVIDIA High Definition Audio drivers but that didn't help. I still have the VIA High Definition Audio enabled - if I disable this I have no sound (I tried this though). Just tried the game again after installing a very old NVIDIA driver and it lasted only 2 minutes before a reboot. What can have changed to make a game that worked fine for 2 weeks to hardly work at all now?

Cheers,
Chris

[Carnium]

You need to disable on-board audio in boot menu, not in windows. You will of course have no sound until you re-enable it, but this is just for testing purposes.
Are your RAMs ok? It works best if you sticks are of the same brand and type.
What is your computer and video card temperature during gameplay?

[Hobbes]

I'll try and disable it tomorrow. No idea if my RAMs are OK - bought the PC from a reputable supplier so I assume they would put in sticks of the same type.
I'll post the temps as well tomorrow - but if I boot in the morning in a cold room the game still crashes after a minute or two.
And there is still the question of what can have changed if it worked fine for two weeks a month ago.

Cheers,
Chris

[Franciscus]

Looking here:

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M4A87TDUSB3/#specifications

your MB has no integrated graphic card.

I would say that your problem is probably due either to a faulty power unit, or faulty CPU-ventilation unit, or faulty hard drive...either way, better to have your backups up-to-date..

(Good free utility to check hard-drive health: CrystalDisk info: http://crystalmark.info/software/CrystalDiskInfo/index-e.html)

Regards

[Hobbes]

I spoke to local PC repair guy when I first had this problem a few years ago in case he had anything in mind for a quick fix. He told me I probably had a 'flakey' motherboard (whatever that means). How can anyone resolve problems like these? There are so many possibilities. If NVIDIA or a games company (or Microsoft) invested some time to look into problems that say 100 people had like this (with PCs that should be capable of playing a game) maybe many solutions could be found. It feels like you buy a PC and then it is just down to luck whether it works OK or not. If it doesn't you are stuffed - the supplier will just tell you that there are software conflicts or tell you to reinstall Windows etc when you know it will make no difference. What a pain! I'm on the verge of buying a new PC - but if that crashes what do I do then?

[Franciscus]

Buy a Mac.
And install Windows 7 via bootcamp

Seriously, though, my iMac has been so far the best and most stable Windows PC that I have ever had (I started with Win 3.1 apy: and had over the years multiple custom-built desktop PCs and several laptops - Toshiba, Acer and lately Asus. All crap compared to the iMac)...

[Philippe]

Having experienced computer death a couple of times when my system was still under warranty, I'm pretty convinced at this point that an extendable warranty is the most important feature you can have on a new system.

With a warranty in place, after a couple of passes at a mystery ailment the company usually throws in the towel and gives you a new system. And sometimes they'll even upgrade it (though that's rare, and tends to be with refurbished parts).

Leaving all of that aside, there are internal diagnostic programs that most manufacturers include with their hardware that allow you to identify things like problematic motherboards with a bit more certainty. I've never been totally convinced they were accurate when I had to run them, but it is a comforting supplement to spending four hours on the phone with someone in Manilla who knows little about computers beyond the dialog cards he's reading. I eventually figured out that those long silences were because he needed to look your question up on Google as well as on his problem database.

[Boomer]

Best strategy (aside from repairs, of course) is to buy or build on the cheap. Thankfully, that's much easier now days with hardware costs going down. My first PC was a DX2 66mhz Pentium with a whopping 64 megs of RAM and a 500 meg hard drive. Cost was $1,400. My current rig is a mid range quad core gaming tower with 4 gigs of RAM and a 1 terrabyte hard drive. Cost? $500 and some change. Build or buy cheap, in the end all hard ware with fail eventually. Better to replace a $500 PC than a $1,400 one.

[Pocus]

I find your amount of RAM lacking Chris, 4 GB is not that much with Seven.

Also, perhaps one of the two RAM chips is now defective, who knows, so the random errors. If you want to risk some euros, replacing your RAM with brand new, bigger RAM sticks is a good choice.

[Hobbes]

Thanks for all the replies folks. It's too nice out to mess around with the PC today but I'll try a few things next week. I did download the core temp program and I get a max of 58 when playing Far Cry.

Cheers,
Chris

[Carnium]

My personal bet is on the RAM for now. Sometimes the computer crashes when the system is switching from one RAM stick to the other, especially if the other one is falling.
If you have the chance please change the RAM to 1x 4GB or 2x 4GB (my combination).
But with today's quality of PC components and configurations it could be anything
Years ago we tested the components by disabling everything that was not essential and then slowly enabling them one by one.

[Ebbingford]

I had memory problems a while ago, my missus says I still have, but I found a good free prog to check your memory http://hcidesign.com/memtest/

[Hobbes]

Thanks for that Ebb. I tried it but unfortunately it reported no errors.

Cheers,
Chris

[Carnium]

Could you please test your machine with just one stick?

[Hobbes]

Could you please test your machine with just one stick?

That sounds like a plan. I'm in the garden tonight but I'll give it a go in the week. I'll need to know how to identify a stick and how to take it out - I'll have a look on the net but if you have any advice please post.

Thanks,
Chris
P.S. Philipe - I have run many of the AdvancedSystemCare 6.2 options so I will see if that makes any difference.

[Carnium]

That sounds like a plan. I'm in the garden tonight but I'll give it a go in the week. I'll need to know how to identify a stick and how to take it out - I'll have a look on the net but if you have any advice please post.

First power off your computer. Take out the power cable and turn the computer on to "clear" the remaining electricity. Wait a few seconds and proceed.
You have two sticks of RAM in your memory slot. Take one out and test your computer. It will be slow, but it might work.
Then repeat the process with the one that was taken out before.
If this is the case then your RAM (one of the sticks) is faulty. If that is the case - replace BOTH with 1x 4GB or better 2x 4GB.
[ATTACH]22473[/ATTACH]

[Hobbes]

Thanks Uros, I'll give this a go next week when I am feeling brave enough. I just tried the game again after running the AdvancedSystemCare program but it still crashed after a minute. Worryingly the AdvancedSystemCare program seemed to kick in during the reboot even though I had used msconfig to turn it off from the startup. It tried to defrag as it was booting up and failed and I got a blue screen. The PC then rebooted OK (phew). This is one of the things that worries me about messing around with the PC - I could make things even worse. At least it works at the moment and I can give it to a friend that could use a PC (and he doesn't play graphic intensive games).

Cheers,
Chris

[Hobbes]

Now I have downloaded the AdvancedSystemCare program it seems impossible to turn it off. I disable it in the startup menu (below) but if I don't use the PC for a while it seems to somehow boot itself up and also cut in if my PC reboots. Grrrr. I hate PCs! It seems that there should be a diagnostic tool that would tell me why my PC is having this problem with games. The human race can diagnose heart disease, cancer etc but can't tell me why Far Cry 3 will not work on my PC!

[ATTACH]22474[/ATTACH]

[Franciscus]

Advanced System Care is not well regarded by everybody. If you do a quick search, you will find that some people even find it dangerous and quasi-malware...

The only "optimization" program I use in my Windows partition in CCleaner. For this program I can vouch good results and zero problems. It can also probably uninstall the "Advanced System Care" you can't get rid off...

(PS: on my OSX partition I do not use and do not need any optimization program...LOL. In fact Ageod is the only reason for having Windows in my life still...)

[Pocus]

Check if ASC6 is not launched as a service then, you can inspect that in msconfig too. You can also disable many unneeded stuff...

[Hobbes]

Hi folks, my current plan is to wait until late Sunday and then try Uros’ idea of removing RAM.
If this doesn’t help I thought I might flush the BIOS. If that doesn’t help I could up the voltage a bit?
I’m waiting until Sunday in case I kill the PC – the next day I go on holiday and can order a new PC

[Hobbes]

I thought I would post what I have learnt and tried so far in case anyone has any comments or can think of anything else +
it will help me remember what to try next time

Run dxdiag
No problems reported

Change game settings
Ongoing

Change GPU settings
Ongoing

Test temperature
Used Core Temp – no problems found

Increase fan speed
Could try SpeedFan but doesn’t seem worthwhile as temps seem OK

Test memory
Used memtest – no problems found

Test hard drive
Run chkdsk /r - no effect
Run CrystalDisk info – to do

General system scan
Run AdvancedSystemCare 6.2 – no problems found

Take out battery
Appears to work with decreasing effect
Could this suggest instead a loose connection which changes as PC is moved about

Push in internal connections and remove dust (wiggle about and blow)
Done - possible improvement. No crash since - but dust in eyes and up nose.

Remove RAM in turn
To do

GPU driver updates
Tried auto installs and custom installs of old, current and beta drivers – no improvement
Tried after an uninstall but this had a near catastrophic effect as the graphics adaptor could no longer be found.
This seemed to fix itself the next day.
Could try Driver Sweeper

Disable on-board audio in boot menu
To do

HDMI audio driver
Disabled – no effect

Try DX9 or DX10
Worth a try?

Flush BIOS
Downloaded Asus BIOS update program for W7/64 but get an incompatible OS message when I try and run it
Could try EZ Flash2

Underclock or overclock
Updated the registry with coolbits but no new option appears in the NVIDIA submenu
Ran Rivatuner but no option to underclock was given

FPS Cap
?

Up voltage
To do

The only reason I have not yet bought a new PC is the nagging worry that it might also crash - a lot of people seem to report similar problems.
As our friends across the pond would say - that would really suck!

Cheers,
Chris