AGEOD Forums

I've been playing a great old DOS game, 1830: Railroads and Robber Barons. Great AI. Great rule set. Great game all around. Just old. All it really needs is a graphic update.

So, I'm thinking this would be a perfect game for a remake and AEGEOD would be the perfect folks to do it. Seems like it would be far easier than building a new game from scratch.

Just a thought.

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Gray_Lensman wrote:The publishing/copyrights are not owned by AGEod. You can't just remake an older game using substantially the same rule set, etc. without obtaining permission from the original publisher/developers. If permission were possible to obtain, the royalty payments would probably make the game unprofitable for AGEod to pour resources into.

Ah, but if those details could be surmounted, just think what fun a Dedicated Cartographer such as yourself could have with all those rail road lines!

Gray_Lensman wrote:The publishing/copyrights are not owned by AGEod. You can't just remake an older game using substantially the same rule set, etc. without obtaining permission from the original publisher/developers. If permission were possible to obtain, the royalty payments would probably make the game unprofitable for AGEod to pour resources into.

Not that it really matters, but FYI, 1830: Railroads and Robber Barons is abandonware. It is freely and legally available, for example, here:

http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/357/1830+Railroads+%2526+Robber+Barons.html

So, no problems with publishing rights...

(PS: in fact, the amount of games available as abandonware is huge. Lots of apparent oportunities to do great remakes)

I knew it was abandonware. It's a port of a board game of the same name, so there could be some copyright issues. But even so, I'd be willing to bet that they'd be willing to make a little money rather than no money.

The rule set is there. The AI is there (and is very, very good). All it needs is new graphics. Not some fancy 3D extravaganza. The entire game consists of a map of the NE United States and maybe ten informational screens. All you need are portraits, stock certificates, ledgers and a map. A couple of talented guys probably could do it in their spare time.

I'd like to see someone do this. But I raised it too, in part, to suggest that sometimes it might make sense to look at what is already out there, just needing a bit of improvement, rather than always trying to reinvent the wheel.

To continue my argument to myself: The biggest reason new games fail is for lack of a solid set of rules and an AI that can play them. New games always have great graphics and, from good designers, are essentially free of major bugs. Many (most?) of them still don't do as well as they should either because they don't have a strong game at their core or they don't have an AI that can play the game. The vast majority of patches and tweaks end up dealing with those last two issues.

Seems to me it would make more sense to start with an established, proven rule set - with a proven game. Better yet, if you have an AI that already can play that game, then you've already surpassed the vast majority of games on the market.

I'm not suggesting that we recycle everything. But selective updating of proven old games could be a decent cottage industry.

Queeg wrote:(...) rather than always trying to reinvent the wheel.

The problem here is that you would be forced to reinvent the wheel, since the original program code isn't available. You'd need to do everything from scratch; implementing the ruleset, crafting a capable AI, creating the user interface, everything.

Also, that a game has become categorized as "abandonware" merely means that no-one currently cares about maintaining their rights over it, something that easily (and probably) would change if the games (plural, meaning both board and/or computer version) became the focus of a modernized edition of the game.

That said, I'd love to see it done

The biggest technical problem is that this is a game that differs significantly from what the AGE engine does... And doing a new game from scratch is huge nowadays, we are talking in millions of euros.

besides 1830 rail barons (avalon hill) , 1830 or 1815 -1850 could be a nice extension to PoN/VgN

1848 revolutions , think about it

that is, when Philthib and Pocus have finished their home duties and present initial game fully finished IN ALL AREAS and runs smoothly (easly, simple, light task )

they would become bored else

(Pocus fainting, Philthib trying to find a projectile to throw on Christophe, generalissimo passing the projectile to Philthib)

1830-PC one of the best games of all time.

But before AGEOD/PI could do anything about it, it would be necessary to secure IP rights. I wouldn't imagine that is very likely to happen. Also, 1830 doesn't really sync well with AGEOD's team or customer base.

Perhaps, you should try to see if you could get the IP holder to release the game and source code into the public domain. That might get you upgraded graphics and an even more vicious AI. Think ... they did all that with 5Mb; imagine what could be done with 500Mb!

MarkShot wrote: But before AGEOD/PI could do anything about it, it would be necessary to secure IP rights. I wouldn't imagine that is very likely to happen.

IP holders frequently grant licenses. Especially where they currently are making next to nothing from their IP. Happens in other industries daily.

Though I would love to see someone update 1830, my main point in posting really was to raise the broader concept. The world is full of half-good games. Games with great strategic layers but horrible tactical layers, and vice versa. Yet designers constantly set out to reinvent the wheel, confident that their game will have it all - only to produce yet another half-good game.

Is there really no way to incorporate what has worked before? To learn from and improve upon the past? It happens in other industries, even if it involves licensing the IP of others. If Pocus is correct that developing a new game from scratch costs millions of Euros, then I would think it would behoove the gaming industry to consider alternatives.