OT: Growing up in France (not as ethnic French or racially European)?

[MarkShot]

I think these forums are the greatest contact I have with native French. I myself am an American with European roots a few generations removed.

My sister-in-law and her husband have emmigrated to France and just gave birth to their first child. They are ethnically and racially Chinese. I was kind of surprised when they decided not to give their new born daughter a French name, but only use the Chinese name which they picked for her.

In my mind, not having a French name will present a small obstacle for the child to assimilate into French society. (Of course, it is possible that her parents are not that eager for their child to assimilate.) Additionally, the child's Chinese name gives no indication as to the gender of the child. (This is true even for Chinese speakers as the name chosen is fairly neuter.)

My sister-in-law explained it to my wife that in France that the native French do not expect or appreciate assimilation by non-ethnic/non-white persons. They are generally uncomfortable using French names for people who they regard as foreigners and prefer to use a foreign sounding names to address such people. In general, being born ethnically non-French and racially non-white will make you an outsider to French society regardless of any desire to assimilate.

Of course, my comments above and my sister-in-law's view are very broad generalizations. However, a society is really composed of a multitude of distinct views. In any case, I would be interested to hear the thoughts of those who are ethnically and racially French.

In the USA, someone born here can certainly assimilate if one desires to do so. That is not to say that racial and ethnic prejudices don't exist here. However, they are not so broad or extreme across the entire society to exclude someone from being considered an American in most venues if that is what the individual desires.

Thanks for your time.

[Korrigan]

Hi Mark,

Well, I'm fairly surprised by the choice of your sister-in-law.

First, in France at least, east-asian familly tend to pick 100% French origin name fort their child. Most of the vietnamese or chinese girls I got to know were named: Nathalie, Florence, Christine, etc. Boys are typically named: Laurent, Philippe, Thomas, Luc, etc. One of my best friend is named "Gwenegan", his familly came from Vietnam ant they picked this first name which a quite uncommun name in France, but very "native" in Britanny, the region where we grew up. Vietnamese families are well-known in France as communities which tried to assimilate in their new country.

Second, I think that your sister in law is wrong in her analysis of the French society. She might be right in assuming that for some individuals she will always be a "chinese" before to be a French citizen. But, she is entirely wrong in assuming that her child would be better with a non-occidental name.
(Most of my asian friends have a second "asian" name, but I can't even pronounce it!). A personn with a "ethnic" name will be seen as a first generation imigrate, not very well integrated in the society. He/her will most likely be asked about his/her proficiency in French during job interviews, etc...

To sum it up:
Your sister in law idea is quite uncommun, and I think it's not a good idea for her child....

Ludovic

[Adlertag]

I see another problem related indirectly to your testimony , in France and in many other countries ; it's the growing of "communautarism" among which the religious one is the most dangerous.
French multi-cultural society is today divided between identity fold and opening to other's culture. Not easy to find the best way...

[Philippe]

There used to be a law that if you were born in France you had to be given a name from a list of French catholic saints' names. The law was supposedly designed to keep people in Alsace-Lorraine from naming their sons Hans, Heinrich, and Wilhelm. Apocryphal legend has it that the only person who ever got around that regulation was one particularly stubborn peasant who, when informed that his daughter's proposed Breton name wasn't on the list, threatened to christen her with all the names on the list. Since the documents had to be filled out in triplicate and by hand, he got his way.

I don't know how much of this belongs to urban legend. I do know from examining my own birth certificate that much of it is indeed done by hand (and covered with a set of stamps that look like they came out of the 19th century -- those with an unkind turn of mind might even suggest that they were almost old enough...). I suspect adherence to the French-catholic-saints'-names-only rule went out the window in the aftermath of the Algerian war. And I'm still not quite sure how it explains how people ended up getting named Fete National...