I was thinking about buying Jutland by Stom Eagle Studio. I like WWI, I like sea battle, and the campaign looks great.
The game is very pricy, so I would like to have an honest opinion. Especially at the campaign mode. Is it realistic ? Is it good ?
Thank you.
Don't own the game myself but it's on my list (though I'm slightly more interested in Distant Guns). There used to be a lot of posts about these games over at Gamesquad Forums, both positive and negative. When SES finally figured out that they couldn't censor and control discussion on a third party forum, they pulled out and started their own at their site.
Some of what's there is probably unduly negative. Some of what's there is very interesting though. At one point the designers weighed in when people were complaining about the lack of micro-management and pointed out that by the time a ship goes into combat, any ship captain who hasn't got things like fire control and damage control down to almost automatic functions should be cashiered. A very good point that computer gamers have trouble wrapping their minds around (I only did that kind of thing in Great Naval Battles because the AI made such poor choices). So I gather that what's going on is that you're pointing very pretty and very realistic-looking ship models in the direction that they want to move, and your junior officers are taking care of the rest. Admirals and Commodores do not direct damage control parties, and target selection has a lot to do with SOP.
Another place that I've found has a wealth of informed opinion about this kind of thing is the forum section of Subsim Forums. The games have gotten a lot of coverage there from time to time, and a lot of knowledgeable nautical types hang out there.
But I think the final thing you should do is to plan and block out about a week of game playing time in advance and download the demo which is probably the game with a time limit. That will tell you whether your system can handle it and whether you like the feel of the way the game plays. My sense is that it probably is pretty realistic albeit over-priced. It's not something that you buy casually, not just because of the money, but because when you spend that much you have to make a commitment of time and effort to playing the thing.
Having said all of that, I don't recall whether a temporary demo trial exists for Jutland, though it does exist for Distant Guns. If it doesn't, just download the Distant Guns demo instead -- it will tell you what you need to know.
Some of what's there is probably unduly negative. Some of what's there is very interesting though. At one point the designers weighed in when people were complaining about the lack of micro-management and pointed out that by the time a ship goes into combat, any ship captain who hasn't got things like fire control and damage control down to almost automatic functions should be cashiered. A very good point that computer gamers have trouble wrapping their minds around (I only did that kind of thing in Great Naval Battles because the AI made such poor choices). So I gather that what's going on is that you're pointing very pretty and very realistic-looking ship models in the direction that they want to move, and your junior officers are taking care of the rest. Admirals and Commodores do not direct damage control parties, and target selection has a lot to do with SOP.
Another place that I've found has a wealth of informed opinion about this kind of thing is the forum section of Subsim Forums. The games have gotten a lot of coverage there from time to time, and a lot of knowledgeable nautical types hang out there.
But I think the final thing you should do is to plan and block out about a week of game playing time in advance and download the demo which is probably the game with a time limit. That will tell you whether your system can handle it and whether you like the feel of the way the game plays. My sense is that it probably is pretty realistic albeit over-priced. It's not something that you buy casually, not just because of the money, but because when you spend that much you have to make a commitment of time and effort to playing the thing.
Having said all of that, I don't recall whether a temporary demo trial exists for Jutland, though it does exist for Distant Guns. If it doesn't, just download the Distant Guns demo instead -- it will tell you what you need to know.
Narwhal wrote:I was thinking about buying Jutland by Stom Eagle Studio. I like WWI, I like sea battle, and the campaign looks great.
The game is very pricy, so I would like to have an honest opinion. Especially at the campaign mode. Is it realistic ? Is it good ?
Thank you.
I bought the entire Jutland selection when they dropped their former DRM scheme and went to their StormPower utility and have had it for about a year now.
Campaign mode leaves much to be desired. Stormeagle claims that it tracks each ship's location to the nearest metre but if that's accurate then something is very wrong with the engine. Squadrons will teleport, sometimes covering over 100km instantly, I have had British squadrons operating off the Western Freisen Islands magically move instantly under the guns of the Helgoland fortifications. This bug is well known and common in the campaign mode and there seems no interest in fixing it.
Squadron speeds are fixed, based on the speed of the component ships but you have no control over it. This makes coordinating separate squadrons at sea nearly impossible as the faster units will always run away from the slower units. Forget about setting the Battlefleet X-kilometres behind any detached battlecruisers, the game doesn't allow it without constantly changing orders and stopping the faster squadrons (by forcing them to patrol in place) so the slower ones can catch up.
You cannot shadow an enemy force. The Jutland AI is programmed so that it will virtually always flee from a superior force and the there is no fog of war for the AI, it knows where all your forces are and what you have at sea. There is some debate on this, Stormeagle minions are sometimes ambivalent in their denials but it is the only cause that fits the effect seen in the game. Once in contact, the game moves to tactical resolution but the combat-ending algorithms will terminate the action if there has been no shooting for an unpredictable but generally short period of time. I have pursued enemy forces to nearly opening-up range only to have the action end and the game revert to the strategic level. Minutes later, the tactical action is resumed but you have lost all the ground gained (so much for tracking relative positions to the metre) and need to rinse and repeat. It gets old really fast.
I wanted to like Jutland and Distant Guns but suggest you save your money and await Steam and Iron from Naval Warfare Simulations:
Steam and Iron: The Great War at Sea
Not as pretty to look at as SES Jutland but it looks much deeper and more representative of machine-age naval warfare.
These are a few observations, there are a lot more. Other's will have opposite opinions I expect... Good Luck.
Random wrote:I bought the entire Jutland selection when they dropped their former DRM scheme and went to their StormPower utility and have had it for about a year now.
Campaign mode leaves much to be desired. Stormeagle claims that it tracks each ship's location to the nearest metre but if that's accurate then something is very wrong with the engine. Squadrons will teleport, sometimes covering over 100km instantly, I have had British squadrons operating off the Western Freisen Islands magically move instantly under the guns of the Helgoland fortifications. This bug is well known and common in the campaign mode and there seems no interest in fixing it.
Squadron speeds are fixed, based on the speed of the component ships but you have no control over it. This makes coordinating separate squadrons at sea nearly impossible as the faster units will always run away from the slower units. Forget about setting the Battlefleet X-kilometres behind any detached battlecruisers, the game doesn't allow it without constantly changing orders and stopping the faster squadrons (by forcing them to patrol in place) so the slower ones can catch up.
You cannot shadow an enemy force. The Jutland AI is programmed so that it will virtually always flee from a superior force and the there is no fog of war for the AI, it knows where all your forces are and what you have at sea. There is some debate on this, Stormeagle minions are sometimes ambivalent in their denials but it is the only cause that fits the effect seen in the game. Once in contact, the game moves to tactical resolution but the combat-ending algorithms will terminate the action if there has been no shooting for an unpredictable but generally short period of time. I have pursued enemy forces to nearly opening-up range only to have the action end and the game revert to the strategic level. Minutes later, the tactical action is resumed but you have lost all the ground gained (so much for tracking relative positions to the metre) and need to rinse and repeat. It gets old really fast.
I wanted to like Jutland and Distant Guns but suggest you save your money and await Steam and Iron from Naval Warfare Simulations:
Steam and Iron: The Great War at Sea
Not as pretty to look at as SES Jutland but it looks much deeper and more representative of machine-age naval warfare.
These are a few observations, there are a lot more. Other's will have opposite opinions I expect... Good Luck.
I agree completely.
Narwhal wrote:Thank you for the honest opinions.
It is a no-buy, then !
I also decided to not buy after a review on the internet saying that the game did not simulate the very difficult weather of the Northern Sea. Is it still true ?
I played a Jutland 1915 campaign from January to late March and NEVER saw any weather greater than Sea State 3, and then only on one day. Fog and rain, some, lot of rain in fact but it seldom affected visibility so hiding in squalls didn't work. No significant wind or any snow was observed.
In Distant Guns, never saw a sea state greater than 2 after seven months of campaigning.
One could go on all day but I think you made the wise choice.
I have come across "Napoleonic battles Campaign Leipzig" and bought it. there are tons of games this software company made about Napoleon or WW1-2 but I guess this is their late engine. I have read the manual and played a few games and it is very solid game about maneuver warfare and have stable rules.(After so many games they have produced.) Map is huge and there is unique unit types. I think there is similar activation rules about leaders.
On negative side there are no sea battles !
And atmosphere&music and graphics very lacking versus Rise of Prussia. But nonetheless is indeed a solid title for time investing.
http://johntillersoftware.com/NapoleonicBattles/CampaignLeipzig.html
On negative side there are no sea battles !
And atmosphere&music and graphics very lacking versus Rise of Prussia. But nonetheless is indeed a solid title for time investing.
http://johntillersoftware.com/NapoleonicBattles/CampaignLeipzig.html
John Tiller and his developers recently abandoned HPS and sell their games directly.
If you plan to buy more Napoleonic games from HPS these mods are essential, a map set for all of them and also units and 3D for many, unfortunately no units for Jena and Austerlitz
http://ezjax2.com/HPSMod/index.html
If you want people to play with
http://www.wargame.ch/wc/nwc/Napann1.htm
If you plan to buy more Napoleonic games from HPS these mods are essential, a map set for all of them and also units and 3D for many, unfortunately no units for Jena and Austerlitz
http://ezjax2.com/HPSMod/index.html
If you want people to play with
http://www.wargame.ch/wc/nwc/Napann1.htm
Nikel wrote:John Tiller and his developers recently abandoned HPS and sell their games directly.
If you plan to buy more Napoleonic games from HPS these mods are essential, a map set for all of them and also units and 3D for many, unfortunately no units for Jena and Austerlitz
http://ezjax2.com/HPSMod/index.html
If you want people to play with
http://www.wargame.ch/wc/nwc/Napann1.htm
I have already sent two mails today to the club's contact us and army recruitment link. I guess they have different registration procedure. Hope they will return.
The mod link you gave have much better graphics. Especially 2-D map mode looks very good ,
http://ezjax2.com/HPSMod/images/2dmap.jpg
I think I will buy most of the collection, scenarious&campaigns went through lots of research and documented well in pdf.
Thanks
Forgot to mention Philippe that is a member here also created a mod for Leipzig
http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?104301-New-mod-for-Campaign-Leipzig
http://forums.gamesquad.com/showthread.php?104301-New-mod-for-Campaign-Leipzig
I keep forgetting that I'm not the only one who's aware of my life on the other forums.
For screenshots of the Leipzig mod go here:
http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=582191
There's some Ezjax material in there, but it had to be reworked for the different game engine (he's also stopped making HPS/JTS Napoleonic mods). The unit images mounted on flags and the unitboxes are mine, along with a lot of the material in the 2D maps (e.g. unit symbols).
Campaign Leipzig will play any soundfile that you throw into the background sound box. I rather like the simplicity of the marching noises, but there are too many people jabbering in English (which doesn't make sense in central Europe). If you own the old Talonsoft Prelude to Waterloo and Waterloo games you can use those music files (minus the English and Scottish ones) to make a quick and easy music mod. There were notes on how to do this in my mod for the HPS Waterloo game that used to be hosted at SDC.
For screenshots of the Leipzig mod go here:
http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=582191
There's some Ezjax material in there, but it had to be reworked for the different game engine (he's also stopped making HPS/JTS Napoleonic mods). The unit images mounted on flags and the unitboxes are mine, along with a lot of the material in the 2D maps (e.g. unit symbols).
Campaign Leipzig will play any soundfile that you throw into the background sound box. I rather like the simplicity of the marching noises, but there are too many people jabbering in English (which doesn't make sense in central Europe). If you own the old Talonsoft Prelude to Waterloo and Waterloo games you can use those music files (minus the English and Scottish ones) to make a quick and easy music mod. There were notes on how to do this in my mod for the HPS Waterloo game that used to be hosted at SDC.
Thank you Nikel and Philippe.
I have downloaded and run the mod and unit counters are much better visible&bigger but it is slightly difficult to tell where they are facing in 2d-map.(There is a small line though to show where they face)Certainly 3-D map(Terrain colour) is much better and it is good to see unit portraits also better.
I'm thinking of buying another title with slightly different rules in the engine ex: France 1914. What do you think? Only negative side I think of fronts are much static and less opportunity to maneuver (With some guess) and what do you think of other titles?
I have downloaded and run the mod and unit counters are much better visible&bigger but it is slightly difficult to tell where they are facing in 2d-map.(There is a small line though to show where they face)Certainly 3-D map(Terrain colour) is much better and it is good to see unit portraits also better.
I'm thinking of buying another title with slightly different rules in the engine ex: France 1914. What do you think? Only negative side I think of fronts are much static and less opportunity to maneuver (With some guess) and what do you think of other titles?
France 1914 is a masterpiece. It uses a variation of the Panzer Campaigns engine and was designed by Volcano Man, a well-known modder, who is totally in love and completely obsessed with his subject.
Oddly enough, France '14 feels more napoleonic than many napoleonic games. The campaigns of 1914, even on the western front, still involved a lot of movement. This is the only game I can think of where you end up using proper cavalry tactics for reconaissance and screening your forces, and the distinction between heavy and light cavalry, to say nothing of mounted versus dismounted cavalry, is very real and meaningful. And once you find yourself staring at a large section of apparently empty map where you just know something unpleasant is happening, you'll find yourself screaming for more (unarmed !) aeroplanes to give you a quick glimpse of what's going on.
Movement is slower and more deliberate than in the Panzer Campaign games because most of your forces are leg infantry. This has some interesting ramifications, one of which is that you have to think like an army commander and plan your movements many turns in advance: if you decide to move a division from your left flank to your right flank, it will take time to get it onto a road and moving in the proper direction. And nothing is more embarassing than sending a dozen batallions trudging down a road in march column only to realize that you really needed them somewhere else, and having to order a counter-march.
Finally, when you eventually play the game by pbem, you (or your opponent) will discover the importance of retreating in the face of an advancing superior enemy. It doesn't seem like much, but managing your fatigue, and not standing around getting pounded to pieces can be the difference between a draw and a catastrophic loss. This is something that is probably more apparent when playing pbem than when playing solo.
The base 2D graphics in the game are pretty good, mostly because Jison (the modder who makes Map Mods) was involved in part of the graphics production. Volcano Man did a graphics mod of his own game which you can find on his website, largely because it includes material that couldn't be included in a commercial release. I did a graphics mod which builds on Volcano Man's, and Jison has done one which, although I don't use it because it isn't really to my taste, can only be described as high concept and is one of the most original mods of any game out there -- be sure to check it out.
The short answer is, get the game, and no, it is most certainly not static.
Oddly enough, France '14 feels more napoleonic than many napoleonic games. The campaigns of 1914, even on the western front, still involved a lot of movement. This is the only game I can think of where you end up using proper cavalry tactics for reconaissance and screening your forces, and the distinction between heavy and light cavalry, to say nothing of mounted versus dismounted cavalry, is very real and meaningful. And once you find yourself staring at a large section of apparently empty map where you just know something unpleasant is happening, you'll find yourself screaming for more (unarmed !) aeroplanes to give you a quick glimpse of what's going on.
Movement is slower and more deliberate than in the Panzer Campaign games because most of your forces are leg infantry. This has some interesting ramifications, one of which is that you have to think like an army commander and plan your movements many turns in advance: if you decide to move a division from your left flank to your right flank, it will take time to get it onto a road and moving in the proper direction. And nothing is more embarassing than sending a dozen batallions trudging down a road in march column only to realize that you really needed them somewhere else, and having to order a counter-march.
Finally, when you eventually play the game by pbem, you (or your opponent) will discover the importance of retreating in the face of an advancing superior enemy. It doesn't seem like much, but managing your fatigue, and not standing around getting pounded to pieces can be the difference between a draw and a catastrophic loss. This is something that is probably more apparent when playing pbem than when playing solo.
The base 2D graphics in the game are pretty good, mostly because Jison (the modder who makes Map Mods) was involved in part of the graphics production. Volcano Man did a graphics mod of his own game which you can find on his website, largely because it includes material that couldn't be included in a commercial release. I did a graphics mod which builds on Volcano Man's, and Jison has done one which, although I don't use it because it isn't really to my taste, can only be described as high concept and is one of the most original mods of any game out there -- be sure to check it out.
The short answer is, get the game, and no, it is most certainly not static.
It is really a shame that the HPS and Tiller games don't have the same graphic standards as the Battleground ones.. Those were just beauties... I remember spending hours just enjoying the graphics while playing against the moronic AI on Prelude to Waterloo or Waterloo... Just so so beautiful.
It is really a shame that there isn't an editor willing to do a nice game with nice 3D graphics (simple 3D à la Battleground series would do for me), on a hex base with turn based system. I mean one would think there would be a market out there.
For me the enjoyment of the Napoleonic wars is also about the uniforms, lines and columns and the HPS series never quite recaptured that esthetic magic of the Battleground titles...
It is really a shame that there isn't an editor willing to do a nice game with nice 3D graphics (simple 3D à la Battleground series would do for me), on a hex base with turn based system. I mean one would think there would be a market out there.
For me the enjoyment of the Napoleonic wars is also about the uniforms, lines and columns and the HPS series never quite recaptured that esthetic magic of the Battleground titles...
The reason that the Talonsoft maps were so beautiful was that the entire map was handpainted onto a single gigantic bitmap. The reason advanced for the ugly newer look is that the new system allows for huge tactical maps. One map in the Leipzig game is downright gigantic and includes Naumberg and Halle. This is quite impressive, as size goes, and is probably worth the trade-off. My one regret, though, is that the game engine at the operational level has never really tried to keep pace with the larger map capabilities: if you have a really big map, your units will be doing things way beyond what happens in a limited tactical engagement. So you need elaborate (but invisible) sub routines for supply trains, depots, fatigue from running short on your brandy ration, and proper march route rules.
My big beef with the Tiller engine is that it was decided back in the Jim Rose/Talonsoft days to make a simplification in the number of formations a unit could use. As a result column formation was merged with route march formation (or lack thereof). The fact is that a battalion in column formation was simply verbal shorthand for putting your companies in line formation but then stacking the companies one in front of the other, as opposed to line formation which is shorthand for putting companies in line formation side by side. There's a huge difference in frontage, and a battalion in column will be able to pivot faster than one in line, but both are pretty much equally in trouble when confronted with obstacles, and neither formation can take advantage of roads or bridges (the column formation having a frontage of sixty to a hundred men, depending). March formation was a different beast -- it had a frontage of four to eight men depending on the type of road it was moving on, and depending on that frontage could get a lot longer (think two hexes). It was also pretty useless for combat. None of this shows up in the game engine, and I don't get the impression that Tiller is interested in updating or enhancing it in any serious way. And if he did, Bill Peters would have to spend two years going nuts revising all of the hundreds of napoleonic scenarions in the games he designed, because a change like the one I'm describing would have an impact on everything.
At another level what is happening with the games is a function of personal taste and interest. Some people are very good mathematicians, but don't have an eye for graphics or an ear for music. The result can sometimes be cringe-worthy, and nothing that you will ever say or do can make any difference because the interest and willinginess for re-education will always be lacking. So you try to influence what changes you can, and then go out and make a mod. If I had my own pool of money, a couple of programers, and a few graphics artists, I'd do things very differently.
Having said all of that, what the Tiller games really have going for them is a mind-boggling amount of research. This is seen to best advantage when the games aren't fighting with the engine too much. And that is what makes the Panzer Campaigns series so impressive.
My big beef with the Tiller engine is that it was decided back in the Jim Rose/Talonsoft days to make a simplification in the number of formations a unit could use. As a result column formation was merged with route march formation (or lack thereof). The fact is that a battalion in column formation was simply verbal shorthand for putting your companies in line formation but then stacking the companies one in front of the other, as opposed to line formation which is shorthand for putting companies in line formation side by side. There's a huge difference in frontage, and a battalion in column will be able to pivot faster than one in line, but both are pretty much equally in trouble when confronted with obstacles, and neither formation can take advantage of roads or bridges (the column formation having a frontage of sixty to a hundred men, depending). March formation was a different beast -- it had a frontage of four to eight men depending on the type of road it was moving on, and depending on that frontage could get a lot longer (think two hexes). It was also pretty useless for combat. None of this shows up in the game engine, and I don't get the impression that Tiller is interested in updating or enhancing it in any serious way. And if he did, Bill Peters would have to spend two years going nuts revising all of the hundreds of napoleonic scenarions in the games he designed, because a change like the one I'm describing would have an impact on everything.
At another level what is happening with the games is a function of personal taste and interest. Some people are very good mathematicians, but don't have an eye for graphics or an ear for music. The result can sometimes be cringe-worthy, and nothing that you will ever say or do can make any difference because the interest and willinginess for re-education will always be lacking. So you try to influence what changes you can, and then go out and make a mod. If I had my own pool of money, a couple of programers, and a few graphics artists, I'd do things very differently.
Having said all of that, what the Tiller games really have going for them is a mind-boggling amount of research. This is seen to best advantage when the games aren't fighting with the engine too much. And that is what makes the Panzer Campaigns series so impressive.
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Franciscus
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veji1 wrote:It is really a shame that the HPS and Tiller games don't have the same graphic standards as the Battleground ones.. Those were just beauties... I remember spending hours just enjoying the graphics while playing against the moronic AI on Prelude to Waterloo or Waterloo... Just so so beautiful.
It is really a shame that there isn't an editor willing to do a nice game with nice 3D graphics (simple 3D à la Battleground series would do for me), on a hex base with turn based system. I mean one would think there would be a market out there.
For me the enjoyment of the Napoleonic wars is also about the uniforms, lines and columns and the HPS series never quite recaptured that esthetic magic of the Battleground titles...
The games were very beautiful. I tried the load one up on W7 the other day just to have another look but ran into errors.
After getting fed up with the AI I found a wonderful Italian PBEM opponent who I still email once in a blue moon 10 years later. Unfortunately he was far too good for me.
Not bad for such an old game (but I prefer the look with hexes on) :-
France '14 sounds interesting. I will check it out. Volcano Man certainly does some wonderful things.
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they were indeed beauties... Just remenbenring the sparkly colours of the Guard uniforms and flags, as they march onto the plain in Waterloo or went up the Ligny hill to smash the prussians.. And the looks of each unit on the unit window... I remember just watching the game as much as I played it... When I looked at the HPS and Tiller games thinking about buying them, I just couldn't out of graphic pain... I mean sure if I play WITP or WITE I am coold with 2D and nato symbols... but for napoleonic tactical warfare I just crave for the visuals... The TIller games with the Talonsoft graphics, I would buy the whole set straight away...
I sort ot have the same fear regarding the Brother against Brother game being prepared by Matrix, a tactical simulation of AACW battles.. They are keeping the forge of freedom graphs and that just won't cut it.
I don't want RT 3D á la Napoleon Total War, but when playing those time frames, I need to see some beauty, whether the AACW and NCP magnificent maps, or the Talonsoft maps and units...
Man just thinking about it, I feel so nostalgic...
I sort ot have the same fear regarding the Brother against Brother game being prepared by Matrix, a tactical simulation of AACW battles.. They are keeping the forge of freedom graphs and that just won't cut it.
I don't want RT 3D á la Napoleon Total War, but when playing those time frames, I need to see some beauty, whether the AACW and NCP magnificent maps, or the Talonsoft maps and units...
Man just thinking about it, I feel so nostalgic...
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Franciscus
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The demo is installed on my computer.
It's essentially the Napoleonic equivalent of Take Command Manassas. Haven't tested it fully but it's a superior tactical engine, and even without mods (and there are a lot of good ones, some done by Ezjax) it is designed to get all the uniforms right.
It can give you a close-up of a section of a battle that no other game can touch. What it can't do is give you a gigantic battle or series of battles on one huge battlefield. But I'm expecting it to be more realistic than the Tiller engine.
I've held off on getting it because it was the product of a very small production team, and that meant it would take a while to work the kinks out. From what I gather it's reaching that stage now (if it hasn't reached it). My understanding is that it is also a serious attempt to simulate Napoleonic warfare. By contrast, most Total War games are serious attempts to simulate...other Total War games.
So yes, I would expect Histwar to be the wave of the future, in the sense that it's the Combat Mission of Napoleonics. It looks and sounds pretty good too.
It's essentially the Napoleonic equivalent of Take Command Manassas. Haven't tested it fully but it's a superior tactical engine, and even without mods (and there are a lot of good ones, some done by Ezjax) it is designed to get all the uniforms right.
It can give you a close-up of a section of a battle that no other game can touch. What it can't do is give you a gigantic battle or series of battles on one huge battlefield. But I'm expecting it to be more realistic than the Tiller engine.
I've held off on getting it because it was the product of a very small production team, and that meant it would take a while to work the kinks out. From what I gather it's reaching that stage now (if it hasn't reached it). My understanding is that it is also a serious attempt to simulate Napoleonic warfare. By contrast, most Total War games are serious attempts to simulate...other Total War games.
So yes, I would expect Histwar to be the wave of the future, in the sense that it's the Combat Mission of Napoleonics. It looks and sounds pretty good too.
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Franciscus
- Posts: 4571
- Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
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Philippe wrote:The demo is installed on my computer.
It's essentially the Napoleonic equivalent of Take Command Manassas. Haven't tested it fully but it's a superior tactical engine, and even without mods (and there are a lot of good ones, some done by Ezjax) it is designed to get all the uniforms right.
It can give you a close-up of a section of a battle that no other game can touch. What it can't do is give you a gigantic battle or series of battles on one huge battlefield. But I'm expecting it to be more realistic than the Tiller engine.
I've held off on getting it because it was the product of a very small production team, and that meant it would take a while to work the kinks out. From what I gather it's reaching that stage now (if it hasn't reached it). My understanding is that it is also a serious attempt to simulate Napoleonic warfare. By contrast, most Total War games are serious attempts to simulate...other Total War games.
So yes, I would expect Histwar to be the wave of the future, in the sense that it's the Combat Mission of Napoleonics. It looks and sounds pretty good too.
Have you tried the updated demo (http://www.histwar.com/game/demo.html) ? If you have the old demo, you are missing much.
This game has some similarities to TC2M, but it's very different. For starters, you really should play as CiC. Divisional/Brigade orders are not yet functional, and although you can micromanage each and every regiment/battery, that's not the spirit of the game. The fun is giving orders to your Corps commanders, and then dealing with delayed orders, different levels of initiative, FoW, scouting, morale, etc. And the level of realism is impressive, from the uniforms to the historical formations, etc.
Regarding size of battles: just try Waterloo, or Wagram, or Austerlitz, with 1:2 or even 1:1 scale of troops, and then tell me what you think...
And you can play in some really huge battlefields, the max being IIRC, 30x22,5 Km. There are not many scenarios using these huge maps, but you have with the game a full-fledged map editor (alongside OoB and doctrine editor, to mod as much as you want). Unfortunately, campaign or linked battles do not exist (yet ?)
The AI is very good and improving, and the MP community is very active.
Finally, you are right, this game is made by a very small production team: one man ! (JMM). But this is his work of love, and his dedication to listen and improve the game is hard to surpass.
Regards
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Franciscus
- Posts: 4571
- Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
- Location: Portugal
veji1 wrote:Maybe I should, its just that i am structurally biased against RT. when i was a student I liked it but now, with work and wife and kids, i like TB because i don't need much computer time and can think about the ame away from the computer...
I understand, but believe me, Histwar's RT has NOTHING to do with for instance, the Total War games
Thank you Phillippe,
Older title France' 14 has even more nicer features such as quick AI turns and visual movable hexes and some extra. Unfortunately those games aren't very compatible about quality interface. Salut to AGeod !!!!
But they really shine in pbem and with good research and some relative simplicity gameplay but feels very good. There is also squad battle series with horrible graphics but good music "Nevando Esta"
http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/2011/08/squad-battles-falklands-top-malo-house_3730.html
Older title France' 14 has even more nicer features such as quick AI turns and visual movable hexes and some extra. Unfortunately those games aren't very compatible about quality interface. Salut to AGeod !!!!
But they really shine in pbem and with good research and some relative simplicity gameplay but feels very good. There is also squad battle series with horrible graphics but good music "Nevando Esta"
http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/2011/08/squad-battles-falklands-top-malo-house_3730.html
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