How come all of Gray's posts have been deleted?

[Baris]

Hello Chris,
You have some wonderfull scenario design for WIA. Thanks for all of your work.

About the specific topic, I feel some of the problems lies not only about posting good or bad comments. But unfortunately even as game developer I think there is a possibility not to hear so much appreciate. But unfortunately part of the job is to sell the building(for my job ) But to sell the building you need good representatives maybe not so much good architects.

[George McClellan]

WE LOVE YOU GRAY!!!

[H Gilmer3]

I thought this was well known. I read a post where he was describing what he was doing. And then I would go on a thread on which some replies didn't make sense and I realized he had deleted all of this responses on that thread. I don't know the number of responses gone, but it seemed like he mentioned it was thousands. I think someone asked him why do you only have 2000 posts when you used to have 4K or 6K and he said "I'm deleting my posts."

[richfed]

I don't understand this at all ... apparently, as MarkShot implies, it is an internal matter. More than meets the eye.

Last I saw, Gray was down to 400-500 posts and dropping. His posts in this very thread are gone. Very strange.

There can be no questioning the guy's support for this game [AACW] and his outstanding contributions to it, but he seemed to have difficulty speaking to the public -- often coming across as condescending, rude, and abrupt. I think that rubbed people the wrong way and caused many squabbles that have probably come to this.

I started with AGEOD when BOA was released ... that was such a grand representation of my favorite all-time boardgame - Avalon Hill's 1776. I loved it and of course upgraded to WIA. I was never that engrossed in Civil War board games as they entailed too much set-up time and rereading of rules, etc. Along came AACW, which took care of those annoyances, and I was hooked. That's really the only game I play, and have been for the past 4 years. I love it!! Because of those 2 games, I bought several more AGEOD games just to support the company - I have, but don't play, NCP, WWI [and the Gold Kit], and PON.

AACW is my true love, as far as AGEOD is concerned, and this whole thing is a great disappointment to me.

Sorry .... rambled ...

[Stwa]

I have only been back a few weeks posting once again in the forums after about a 2 year absense.

I am not surprised at yet another childish Forum DRAMA here at Ageod. And of course, the Ageod Uppers have to involve themselves to insure that NO DRAMA shall be wasted here.

And of course, a non-paid volunteer, who works his butt off for years on end, decides it's not longer worth the aggrevation, and departs by deleting what he thought where HIS forum posts.

And already, the forum sinks to new lows, by bashing him as he goes out the door, and entering into a pompus discusson on whether his posts are really his, belong to the entire community, and/or are IN FACT, Ageod intellectual property, based on some copyright notice put in place by the Uppers.

Pathetic!

[MarkShot]

I think AGEOD Management involved itself, since the event under discussion resulted in a significant redunction in the utility of the site. Mike's posts contributed greatly to the understanding of both new and verteran players.

As stated previously, the situation between Mike and AGEOD is precisely that, and not for the TV cameras. The only reason we are here talking about it is because threads are full of deleted useful posts.

Clearly, AGEOD has the legal right to all contents that becomes part of the site. Despite the legality of it, many might see this as being a bit heavy handed, and not reflective of the warm easy going nature under which AGEOD operates. When you reflect upon that, you should know that Mike, myself, and others are all held to a set of higher standards; effectively a written agreement that I drafted and we all became party to in 2006. Thus, he is not just any forum user. People such as him and myself, have a special well defined set of responsibilities and behaviors.

So, if we should deem to restore his posts without securing his permission, the issue to us not so much an IP legal issue, but rather an issue that pertains to the actions and behaviors of all those who chose to join the AGEOD Team and be public representatives. Thus, recovery of his posts as a Team member is a completely different matter than common posts made by everyday customers and fans. Nothing has really changed about AGEOD and the way it conducts itself, and no one needs to rethink how they interact on the forums unless they are doing stuff that their mama had warned them about when they were five years old.

I hope this may clarify why AGEOD feels ethicaly proper in recovering the post with or without Mike's permission. Further, I hope it clarifies that the nature of the forums for fans and customers have not changed in substantive way.

Thank you.

[Franciscus]

IMHO, too much "rules", and too few active moderation. In the past, when our dear Rafiki had time to devote daily to this forum, things were much better.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gray-Lensman]

deleted - Mark has read it and Pocus answered my GMail reply

[Athens]

Notepad is a wonderful program whose possibilities are underated. I do most of the event scripting in FY and SVF with.

[MarkShot]

Mike,

Someone from AGEOD other than myself will discuss this matter with you. I would, of course, happily talk to, but I'm not the one you really need to talk to at this point. (also that discussion will not happen here in this thread)

Please understand that it is the weekend and Summer Holidays in France. Finally, there is work and possibly the odd run on a bank or two Monday morning. No one, has forgotten about you.

Take care.

[Stwa]

I think AGEOD Management involved itself, since the event under discussion resulted in a significant redunction in the utility of the site. Mike's posts contributed greatly to the understanding of both new and verteran players.

As stated previously, the situation between Mike and AGEOD is precisely that, and not for the TV cameras. The only reason we are here talking about it is because threads are full of deleted useful posts.

Clearly, AGEOD has the legal right to all contents that becomes part of the site. Despite the legality of it, many might see this as being a bit heavy handed, and not reflective of the warm easy going nature under which AGEOD operates. When you reflect upon that, you should know that Mike, myself, and others are all held to a set of higher standards; effectively a written agreement that I drafted and we all became party to in 2006. Thus, he is not just any forum user. People such as him and myself, have a special well defined set of responsibilities and behaviors.

So, if we should deem to restore his posts without securing his permission, the issue to us not so much an IP legal issue, but rather an issue that pertains to the actions and behaviors of all those who chose to join the AGEOD Team and be public representatives. Thus, recovery of his posts as a Team member is a completely different matter than common posts made by everyday customers and fans. Nothing has really changed about AGEOD and the way it conducts itself, and no one needs to rethink how they interact on the forums unless they are doing stuff that their mama had warned them about when they were five years old.

I hope this may clarify why AGEOD feels ethicaly proper in recovering the post with or without Mike's permission. Further, I hope it clarifies that the nature of the forums for fans and customers have not changed in substantive way.

Thank you.

Well, down through the years I have always remembered MarkShot as a thoughtful and careful poster.

But all that thoughtfulness and carefulness, from time to time, just seem to lead to complete absurdity.

And for some reason, that it how I feel about the quoted post above. It is just downright absurd. And the part about the 2006 Agreement really slays me.

During all that time, I kept saying to myself, only a baboon could come up with something like that. Now I find out MarkShot is its owner.

[Franciscus]

I can only say that I am happy for all you guys. It's good to know that so many grown-ups have no other worries in their lifes, and can dedicate so much energy and strong feelings to... GAMES

As this unfortunately is not my case, I can only be an amused spectator. And will not contribute further to the drama.

(PS: but I feel sorry for the Philippes, that do this for a living and have to put up with so many agravated "volunteers"... - maybe I will check the meaning of that word again, just in case I am confused)

[MarkShot]

I take exception to that. I was the first baboon from my clan that learned to talk and walk on two legs dragging my knuckles only occasionally.

I agree there are far more serious issues in the World like my frig just blew up and there is chocolate ice cream all over the kitchen floor. And we have sleep over guests arriving with hungry kids in 2 hours!

I got to get back to the clean up ... I mean the real clean up.

[charlesonmission]

I'm rather new to gaming after a 10 year break. What is all this talk of trolling mean? What are people actually doing?

Charles

I can only say that I am happy for all you guys. It's good to know that so many grown-ups have no other worries in their lifes, and can dedicate so much energy and strong feelings to... GAMES

As this unfortunately is not my case, I can only be an amused spectator. And will not contribute further to the drama.

(PS: but I feel sorry for the Philippes, that do this for a living and have to put up with so many agravated "volunteers"... - maybe I will check the meaning of that word again, just in case I am confused)

[caranorn]

I can only say that I am happy for all you guys. It's good to know that so many grown-ups have no other worries in their lifes, and can dedicate so much energy and strong feelings to... GAMES

As this unfortunately is not my case, I can only be an amused spectator. And will not contribute further to the drama.

(PS: but I feel sorry for the Philippes, that do this for a living and have to put up with so many agravated "volunteers"... - maybe I will check the meaning of that word again, just in case I am confused)

I don't think there are "so many agravated volunteers" here. At least I've read only two such postings recently. Personally I think if they have such issues they should take the discussions to a more private part of the forum (aka lounge), as a few comments I read here are also in contradiction to the 2007 non-formal agreement...

Due to re-reading that agreement I just realised we are supposed to make us known as ageod betas/volunteers in certain discussions which I probably only rarely did here and elsewhere. So this post is as a common forum user though as should be apparent from the content I am indeed an ageod beta...

[vonRocko]

These days, anyone who buys a computer game at the release date is a beta tester!

[gchristie]

I'm rather new to gaming after a 10 year break. What is all this talk of trolling mean? What are people actually doing?

Charles

From wikipedia: "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted". While the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels subjective, with trolling describing intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context. For example, mass media uses troll to describe "a person who defaces Internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families.""

Not to be confused with people who post on this forum legitimate questions, or raise legitimate concerns/observations/or offer suggestions that they believe might improve the game. Though the troll is in the eye of the beholder/supposed aggrieved, I reckon... It is definitely a pejorative and accusing someone of being one leads to childish public spats generally. While there isn't much we can to to prevent troll behavior, all of us have a choice in how we respond to it.

Good point, vonRocko!

[Gray-Lensman]

deleted

[Athens]

Once mastered the basic principles of NOTEPAD for event scripting, NOTEPAD++ ( http://notepad-plus-plus.org/ will allow you to do more in less time, at the cost of a higher complexity.

[Stauffenberg]

I am going to wade into this precisely because I have not been in here for long and only had two encounters with Gray. On the other hand I have been online in forums for years and am a scenario designer of some repute in another forum.

I initially came in here asking about some glitch issues with saving games in ACW that I had just bought. I praised the game to the sky as I think it is a brilliant achievement--not just as a wargame sim, but in detailing and covering the notoriously difficult issue of the ACW.

Well Gray came down on me like a ton of bricks and my feeling was that he "had issues." Something about past trolls, about people bothering him over issues over the years over certain issues, and he was tired of it. Wow. If I had been a total noob I might have said to hell with it and left. Of course I dug around the forum and saw this guy has made an immense contribution to this forum and to the game.

So for what it is worth, cut him some slack. Drama comes and goes, And Gray, if you happen to read this, I've gone through alot as a scenario designer online, trolled, attacked, whatever... at the end of the day your contribution speaks for itself. Come back when you feel comfortable. The feeling I get here is that you will be well received.

- Stauf


Edit: Well Gray beat me to it above. oops. My comments stand, and without the benefit of any inside info whatsoever. For many people out here a sim that finally details the ACW in an in-depth level approaches the spiritual. I would focus on that.... The other stuff "stuts and frets its hour upon the stage" right?

namaste.

Stauf

[ERISS]

I had removed all my good posts from a french forum, for modo didn't like I make fun of those victims customers of Steam who were crying on us, and modo start banning me from threads where I was talking about DRMs we are all victims of.
So, as I had no longer free speach, I prefered banning myself: I removed all my helping posts, and not those the modo didn't like.
But, as I didn't like punishing people for the modo bad work, I wrote back my best helping posts on another french forum where I can freely talk about those nasty DRMs.

[Alexander the Average]

One of the more ridiculous things I have seen in all my years hanging around forums.

Guess gray got his point across but the end certainly does not justify the means.

[ohms_law]

Well said, Stauf. I agree.
I'm betting that you're still hanging around Grey. Take a break, recharge the batteries, and come back refreshed, please. I know from my own experience that this sort of thing can happen.

By the way, there's some research out there that shows that the average heavy community involvement lifetime of a member is about 3 years.

[ohms_law]

I hate to risk reopening an "old wound" here, but... can you guys please restore Grey's old posts? Having them remain deleted is really disruptive.

If there's really a concern about "intellectual property" here, I'd like to point out that while Grey is obviously the author of his posts, because he posted the information here it's now effectively AGEOD's property. I don't see why anyone should be able to hold this company hostage in this sort of manner.