Spaceface
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Some more feedback after 1.03

Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:58 pm

Hello everyone, I wanted to share my observations of 1.03 and give some general input on how I feel about the balance of the game and highlight some of the features. Currently I have completed or nearly completed campaigns with Rome, Sparta, Rhodes, Carthage, Iberia, Venti, Caledonii, Cherusch and Iberia.

Buildings:
I really like the diversity between the structures of the different playable factions. Especially the Greeks, Romans, Carthagians and the Celts feel good in this respect. The Iberic tribes, Nomads & Germanic tribes could use abit of love. One of the problems I had with the Germanic tribes was getting my hands on Drugs and Medicine for the Irminsul Gathering building. The closest place to find it is in Britain, but the tribes there usually do not have the trade range so the only real option is conquering Britania Inferior (unless I missed something).

One thing that bugs me abit is that it is very difficult to get the right militairy buildings in capital cities of provinces. Perhaps making them province wide and unique to the province or alternatively if the event that lets you focus on different structures (harbors, workshops emporiums, defensive structures) would also have an option for structures like the baracks, stables, etc. It would also be nice if units built within a province that has a master fletcher/master armor smith would come with the defense/attack related upgrades.

Manpower: Feels like its too easy to get. Tribal Nations and Rome pretty much never run out. With nations like Sparta I don't have issues with it anymore after turn 60-70, Carthage takes abit longer. It's also a shame how early mercenary units get rendered obsolete considering they are abit mediocre.

Raiding: Feels underwhelming, you rarely get slaves when raiding and the monotary rewards are quite small. I think there is an opportunity here to make tribes alot more interesting. Giving tribes the ability to move into neutral territory to raid.

Sacking Cities: Adding an option to sack cities different culture to get more slaves and legacy or to reduce decadence would make the world feel more dynamic (cities only get bigger and they do not decline).

Money:
Commerce bonusses feel abit lackluster because it is so easy to get money in the game, unless you are tribal where it is atleast an issue in the beginning. I also never employ citizens on commerce jobs.

Culture:
Really (too?) hard if you are tribal on higher difficulty levels, also relatively hard as Carthage (also feel Carthage is abit of a pushover in general). Abit too easy when Greek (although anything is generally easy as a Greek except dealing with Rome :dada:).

Random events:
Would be nice to get a few more random events, harsher plagues, vulcanic eruptions, invasions of tribal hordes (Huns?).

Cavalry:
I rarely see an argument to putting any medium/heavy cavalry in armies. If the combat width is filled, they do not really fill a role other then chasing down enemies and this can be done just as well with light Cavalry.

One solution could be to lower their attack/defense stats by 1/1(so they are worse in hills, arid hills, mountains, forests) and giving all cavalry a +2 attack/defense bonus in plains, deserts, arid terrain and steppes (perhaps removing some of the bonusses they have now).

Cataphracts are arguably better having the same attack value as Roman legions with less effectivity and hits (only surpassing it by +1 one if you manage to get the stable master).

Bugs & general feedback:
Should I be able to make irrigation channels in Germany (for Papyrus)? Cattle and to a lesser extent Sheep in the desert? Was also suprised to see Hemp there (even though it uses little water)

It would be cool to have a building browser in the game. Sometimes I have a hard time to figure out what I can build where. For example, I know now you cannot build T2 Farms outside plains, but it doesn't say anywhere (as far as I have seen).

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ERISS
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Re: Some more feedback after 1.03

Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:06 am

I at last bought the beast, at GOG. I couldn't wait at least a month to take the box version at Slitherine using my anniversary cupon (I will, buying it a second time).

There is missing text, with french language at least, in "Levée d'urgence" window:
MISSING_IDS_DEC_EMERGENCY_LEVY_CTITLED
But it happens only one time I think, following other times I didn't see it.

I did swiftly one game, with Arvernia (gauls of center of France), I mainly lost by the independant gauls lead by Vercingetorix lol, who swapped almost all from belgium to spain, included, (I could be at war with some other powers too)
then romans took him, but it was too late for me, I couldn't compare back (even I was half the game in the top 10). In the end romans were 2nd on podium, I must have finished 25th despite I had no longer lands (It should be good to write our rank in bottom of victory screen..).
EDIT: I was beginner's luck, my second game was quite bad.
Last edited by ERISS on Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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caranorn
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Location: Luxembourg

Re: Some more feedback after 1.03

Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:10 pm

As to earthquakes and such. In my current gameas Rome (100 turns) (I've almost exclusively played Rome so far) I've had at least two volcanic eruptions (Vesuvius), though the impact was benign with just one pop lost and one building (both times one of the big loyalty ones so that had an impact). I've also had the Padus flood, losing one population, second region it hit no negative effect, but food enhancing for both regions so actually more of a boon. From messages I know the Etna also erupted twice, in regions I didn't control so I don't know the exact outcome. There also was a message of a volcanic eruption with Tsunamy in the Aegaeis, again not sure of the damage. So there are events of this type, the frequecy seems okay but the damage might be bigger (Pompeii and Heraculaneum would be more than a single building and one pop).

Not sure how usefull medium and heavy cavalry is in FOG-E, but exportig battles to FOG-2 it becomes quite important. With just Romano-Greek cavalry I had a lot of trouble dealing with the Celtic invaders in the early game. Once I controlled Cisalpina I raised a number of provincial cavalry which make a serious difference. I've won two major battles in rough terrain now using only skirmishers and cavalry, my latest battle against Athens in almost mountainous terrain (A narrow valley with steep slopes to both sides with the occasional 90° opening into side valleys. My velites and slingers sitting on two of those steep hills, my cavalry half hidden in a depression on my left which gives access to one of the side valleys and my legions, alae and triari drawn up in open ground only a few tiles from the map edge (no clear terrain to draw up anywhere else, and the legions are no good on those steep slopes and rough ground). The enemy army (lacking any foot skirmishers but with some light and medium cavalry (on their left, so not opposing my cavalry) bunched up in the central valley trying to get to me (a human player would have been more cautious) while my velites and slingers pelted the advancing troops eventually routing some without close combat, my medium cavalry made a few hit and run attacks against their right causing 3-4 units to rout (the skirmishers on the left hill helped), finally one enemy hoplite made it through the valley in the centre, 3 infantry overan my right hill (one of my velites routed, one was fragmented but escaped, the rest unscathed, some even continued to pelt enemy cavalry from the extreme right of the hill) and 2 cavalry and one infantry around my left flank (I only had 2 light cavalry to cover that side, one routed), they were in such bad shape at that point that I launched a quick attack with part of my marian legions (the alae stayed behind, I could not have fit my full force into that narrow front and decided to use only the best. That last move didn't have the hoped for effect as I only routed another 2 Athenian hoplites (actuall mercenaries, the truely Athenian units had been routed by my skirmishers). But by the end of that turn over 50% of the enemy had routed, most solely the work of skirmishers and medium cavalry, I had less than 3% casualties while the Athenians were around 55%. Exported back to FOG-E the result was one velite and one light cavalry each losing 2 fatigue (the routed and fragmented units), no other losses on my side, the Athenians only had one suriving cavalry and one infantry, number of initial units were roughly equal, but I had the better commander (2-0 attacking against 2-1 defending) slightly more experienced troops (no governing bonuses as my current ruling party is a good administrator and nothing more) and an edge on power comparison (I think I had about 150, the Athenians about 100). I would have won the battle too in FOG-E, but with much more casualties on my part and less for the Athenians, and my general might not have survived (I lost an excellent (2-1 with trait) one early in the game in a battle between a 90 force army and the fleing remanant of a Senones army, a single bad shape wagon of 2 power, that was one of the last auto battles I fought). So anyhow, at least when exported to FOG-2 medium cavalry can play a big role (the Senones wrecked havoc on my light troops and cavalry and even endangered legions and alae, once I had a decent cavalry force I could deal a lot of damage on the enemy (unfortunatelly I never got to fight the 350 power Carthaginian army that landed in the Adriatic, by the time I'd united my two consular armies and raised a bunch of emergency units they had melted away, no clue where they went and I only found a 150ish force in their stead. That original army had some 16 infantry, a dozen medium cavalry and a lot of light troops, that would have been an interesting battle, a nightmare had they caught one of my armies alone, that cavalry alone would have dealt irrepairable damage.

Now I verged off topic.

In general I think resource output could be tuned down a bit to slow development. I believe I have a 1000 gold per turn income after 100 turns play, not sure on manpower or metal but I regularly use events to reduce those (I try to stay at around 1200-1500 manpower, metal I cannot even reduce bellow some 2000 or so as there are not enough events). City growth and development is also extremely fast (most of my Italian regions have around 25 population, Cisalpina and Sardinia around 15, my Sicilian and Graecian region developments are due to their previous owners so I cannot take any credit for those. Maybe something like 20% less output in all areas? But that would require some testing. Right now the game seems to be pretty balanced even with that fast growth, so I'd be careful when playing around those numbers so nothing gets broken...

Spaceface
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Re: Some more feedback after 1.03

Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:19 pm

Oh wow I never really noticed about those vulcano's and earthquakes! Maybe its because I played Rome relatively little compared to the others! Perhaps I should play it more :)

About Fields of Glory, I don't actually own it....yet. Perhaps I should get it (because it does like nice), I just have the feeling it will make the game abit easier and I am not sure I want that so I would probably prefer to play it as a separate game.

Slowing development might be interesting, But personally I do not so much have a problem with the quick growth but more in that there is very little dynamic to the rise and fall of important cities because of other influences like the sacking of cities.

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ERISS
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Location: France

Re: Some more feedback after 1.03

Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:32 am

Playing Arvern (center of Gaul) feels like rogue-like: it feels random, sometimes I'm lucky and I'm not too much gangbanged, other times I'm dead at turn 20.
Sure the leader is to be diplomatic (go war elsewhere), but how to use this?

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ERISS
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Re: Some more feedback after 1.03

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:21 am

There was a Script error window, it may be from the launcher, as it was telling about Matrix url.

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caranorn
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Location: Luxembourg

Re: Some more feedback after 1.03

Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:43 am

ERISS wrote:There was a Script error window, it may be from the launcher, as it was telling about Matrix url.


Yes, the launchers of FOG-E and FOG-2 had those script errors yesterday evening. But the games could be started as usual...

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Pocus
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Re: Some more feedback after 1.03

Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:23 am

Nice set of comments, and many of them have already been reported elsewhere. It just mean that you are probably right! Also, this is more or less my impression now, given that the game is played by a some thousands of players.

Resources: Indeed it feels that at time some resources are rapidly not rare enough, except under specific circumstances. We are tweaking the mid to end game in this direction though. This is an exercise in balancing as we don't want to make the early game harder (and some nations already have an hard game) though.
Cavalry: Definitively something to do for them, but through a new mechanism that gives some flavor.

Raiding is very important for money for many nations.

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ERISS
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Re: Some more feedback after 1.03

Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:36 am

Pocus wrote:Raiding is very important for money for many nations.

Playing Arvern I almost never use it, as it's too random (dangerous) where I'm at war, and I'm always, if the raiding army was caught and come back too tired to resist an assault.

. Bug in top right event roundel:
Format issue for IDS_RUL3_Vetorix

. Bug in random tip "RAVITAILLEMENT", there is "</b<" text in.

. When we click on people in town window, to move him, the update should be made immediatly (on where we have taken him from), not only when we have moved him elsewhere, so we can see immediatly if we really want to make the move. If not, we have to make the move then move him back if we are not pleased by his hole where he comes from. This must use the system of Pendora-FirstContact.

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