vaalen
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Are there some historical leaders in the game?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:24 pm

I thought there would be some historical leaders in the game, but I have yet to see any in my game as Rome, except fro Horatius. At about a hundred turns, I thought I would have seen a few more by now.

Having a few Historical leaders in the game, would add a lot of flavor. They would not need to appear at the date they did historically, but it would be interesting to have them show up at crucial times, or just show up at any time.

I am thinking of people like Hannibal, Pyrrus, Scipio Africanus, Mithridates of Pontus, Judah Maccabeus, Julius Caesar, Sulla, Gavious Pontius, Surenas, Philapoemen, Hamilcar Barca, and other great generals who appeared in this period.

Most of the generated generals are mediocre, or worse, and it is really fun to use a great military leader, or to oppose one.

The game is still great, just as it is, but I think that having the opportunity to occasionally use or oppose a great historic general would add to the fun.

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loki100
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Re: Are there some historical leaders in the game?

Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:50 am

no, in an early version there were a few historically named 3* leaders. The problem was they totally distorted the combat system as units they led all tended to get 8-10 on the combat rolls regardless of the troops they were leading.

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Pocus
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Re: Are there some historical leaders in the game?

Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:26 am

Historical leaders can create more issues than fun. Perhaps they will return in a special pack/events, optionally. I don't know.

Issues:
- if their window of appearance is historical, then with some fore knowledge, you'll wait until you get a good leader before doing major operations or in reverse, wait for the enemy good leader to die before doing anything. Not fun to wait for Hannibal to die before doing anything with Rome.

- if their window is large, well, are they still historical? Sounds silly to see Julius Caesar coming from 'thin air' in 190 AD...

vaalen
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Re: Are there some historical leaders in the game?

Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:44 pm

loki100 wrote:no, in an early version there were a few historically named 3* leaders. The problem was they totally distorted the combat system as units they led all tended to get 8-10 on the combat rolls regardless of the troops they were leading.


I think a three is too much of an advantage for anyone, as your experience showed. But, these leaders could be rated two on both offense and defense, which would prevent the problem you encountered.

And, the historical leaders could have unique special abilities, or combinations of special abilities. Hannibal, for example,
could be rated two on offense and defense, and have the special abilities of being a fast mover, a tactician, and an ambusher. these traits could be combined in a special trait, only for such leaders, that would combine all three.

Surenas could be rated two and two, and have a special trait that increases the firepower and skirmisher rating of missile units.

In the old Ageod system, great leaders combined many more traits than ordinary leaders, yet they could lose.

These things would make these leaders formidable, but not invincible.

To me, the one thing missing in the game are the great leaders that had so much of an impact on various wars.

vaalen
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Re: Are there some historical leaders in the game?

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:05 pm

Pocus wrote:Historical leaders can create more issues than fun. Perhaps they will return in a special pack/events, optionally. I don't know.

Issues:
- if their window of appearance is historical, then with some fore knowledge, you'll wait until you get a good leader before doing major operations or in reverse, wait for the enemy good leader to die before doing anything. Not fun to wait for Hannibal to die before doing anything with Rome.

- if their window is large, well, are they still historical? Sounds silly to see Julius Caesar coming from 'thin air' in 190 AD...


There should be a large window, which would avoid the wait for Hannibal problem. As for waiting for Hannibal to die, great leaders should not be threes, but should have the abilities I described in my answer to Loki above. They would be formidable, but not invincible. If I was Rome, I would not wait for Hannibal to die, I would go after heim and enjoy the challenge. A leader who is not a three can be beaten, especially if your army is much bigger and better than his, or if you have a great leader yourself, or even a very good leader. For example, if Hannibal is a two two, and is attacked by a Two zero, his advantage of being a tactician would be relatively small, and he could lose.

As for the second problem, you could have a large window, too large for someone to wait, with no guarantee that the leader would appear. For example, a two hundred year window would work for any leader. Great leaders did appear at all periods covered in the game. Julian the apostate appeared when Rome already had its empire, yet he defeated every body. Trajan would be another example.

Another possibility would be to have a fictional name for a great leader, but have them appear randomly. The biggest point is to have great leaders, which the game lacks, and which this period had. I would prefer historical names, as they would add a lot of flavor. Someone with the abilities of Julius Caesar could have appeared at a different time than he did originally, but within the time period of the game.

I think the game is great. But I think it would be even greater with some great leaders, historically named or not. Great leaders were a reality during this period, and the game lacks them.

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Pocus
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Re: Are there some historical leaders in the game?

Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:36 am

This would need to be tied to a kind of "historical pack" of events. Why not, it should be optional. Not everybody wants to have a game with the high predictability historical leaders and events give somehow. Some prefer a more freeform game.

vaalen
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Re: Are there some historical leaders in the game?

Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:00 pm

Pocus wrote:This would need to be tied to a kind of "historical pack" of events. Why not, it should be optional. Not everybody wants to have a game with the high predictability historical leaders and events give somehow. Some prefer a more freeform game.


The historical pack idea is a great one, and would give the players more choice. I would really look forward to that.

I understand that some prefer a more free form game, which is fine. And it is also true that there are those, such as I , who prefer that the color and historical feel provided by having at least some historical leaders is an important part of the era which is not covered by the game. The game does have historical objectives, and I would contend that these do not make the game too predictable.

I do remember that the AGE series had historical leaders, and it was a lot of fun to take on Hannibal, Sulla, Caesar, Pyrrus, and others, and gave the gemes a special level of challenge.

But i think you may have hit on the solution that would satisfy everyone, Pocus, as those who want it could have it, and those who do not want it would not have to use it.

I sincerely hope this will be done.

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