allan_boa
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Duration of one turn ?

Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:46 pm

Hi, I must have missed the information so if someone has the answer, I would appreciate... what is the length of one turn? one week ? two-weeks ? Other ?

Thank you.

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jack54
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:05 pm

I believe turns are 1 year. I haven't seen it written anywhere but seems so comparing the dates on the development diaries screen shots. .... (I was hoping for seasons...at least 4 turns per year.) :innocent:
Last edited by jack54 on Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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H Gilmer3
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:35 pm

They are one year. I think I saw it on the 1 hour and 40 minute or so reveal with Ian and Phillippe at Brescia.

allan_boa
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:44 pm

1 year ???????????
What does it mean to send an army somewhere ? How many "years" will it take to move from one province to another ?
If I move to the next province (say 100 km away) will it take at least one year (ie a minimum of one turn) ? What if I ask my army to move 3 provinces away ?

Can't even imagine the significance of a WEGO game with one-year turns.

Was hoping for weekly turns, two weeks at max.
This is a major disappointment. Maybe I'm wrong but at a first glance, it makes no sense at all ...
Please prove me wrong ... I'm really awaiting this game but one year WEGO ???? :bonk: :wacko:

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Stratman
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:20 pm

allan_boa wrote:Please prove me wrong ... I'm really awaiting this game but one year WEGO ???? :bonk: :wacko:


That's right. I`m sorry

In the very beginning there was an idea of 3 years per turn.
So be happy about 1 year :niark:

I understand a huge length of the period (that`s why 1 year/turn)
But I don`t understand how military (strategy) side of the game will work.
Even 2000 years ago we could have a plenty of battles and other military events during a year...

I do understand either a great challenge for developers...

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jack54
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:56 pm

'1 year turns', 'giant soldiers', 'no leader traits' ( at least not like Ageod of old)', I'm depressed :(

It'll probably be a good game but not what I was hoping for.... time will tell.

allan_boa
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:01 am

No leaders traits ?? That's not cool ... :pleure:
Was expecting so much about this game ... but now ,,, :confused: :confused: :confused:

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Citizen X
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:56 am

allan_boa wrote:No leaders traits ?? That's not cool ... :pleure:
Was expecting so much about this game ... but now ,,, :confused: :confused: :confused:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82CtZX9gmZ8

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Gray Fox
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:17 pm

Here's a side by side screen of a "Giant" unit from Empires and a unit counter from CW2.

https://we.tl/t-nW729ILLp6

I'm retired U.S. Army. I don't see the problem with a large banner pinned to a figurine as in Empires. This is not unlike what Generals at this time would have actually used on a campaign map to represent forces.

The Generals now have traits. It's still in beta. Relax!

Using strategy to resolve military conflict is pretty much a day in the office for me. Sound strategy works just fine in Empires.

My longest test game was 304 of the 1-year turns. I've won CW2 in 14 turns, so the 1-year turns work fine, too.

The beta is honestly quite awesome and the game is only going to be even better. :)
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

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Nikel
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:21 pm

Which is the game on the right of your screen?

I like it ;)

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Gray Fox
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:23 pm

It's Civil War 2, also a great game. It's just a test run I did to gather data on game mechanics. It wasn't an actual play-through.
Last edited by Gray Fox on Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

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Nikel
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:24 pm

Of course I know, was just kidding! :wacko:

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Gray Fox
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:26 pm

I figured as much.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

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Nikel
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:31 pm

LOL, sorry.

Back to my cave.

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Gray Fox
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:40 pm

;)
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

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jack54
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:03 pm

It's not the ''Giant'' size that bothers me it's that it seems like a generic icon. The CW2 icons with leaders are different from each other.

I firmly believe that empires will be an excellent game...but Ageod is going in a different direction than I hoped they would.

Still onboard though!

and I'm sorry I dragged this thread off topic.

allan_boa
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:19 pm

Gray Fox wrote:My longest test game was 304 of the 1-year turns. I've won CW2 in 14 turns, so the 1-year turns work fine, too.

I have no doubt that it's working but my concern is "what does it mean to have one-year WEGO turns ?? I can't figure out how can it reflect any realalistic military operation (I can figure out one-year change in economics but for military/battles ??). Will be hard to imagine why it took one year to my army to move from here to there and how is it possible that the other army was there at the "same time"of the year ...

One year turn also means no seasons, no weather impact (snow in summer ?). Etc. I insist that one-year turns make no sens at all. It reminds me Civilization with 25 years turn.
Realism will deeply suffer from it. I hope I'm wrong.

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loki100
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:46 am

allan_boa wrote:
Gray Fox wrote:My longest test game was 304 of the 1-year turns. I've won CW2 in 14 turns, so the 1-year turns work fine, too.

I have no doubt that it's working but my concern is "what does it mean to have one-year WEGO turns ?? I can't figure out how can it reflect any realalistic military operation (I can figure out one-year change in economics but for military/battles ??). Will be hard to imagine why it took one year to my army to move from here to there and how is it possible that the other army was there at the "same time"of the year ...

One year turn also means no seasons, no weather impact (snow in summer ?). Etc. I insist that one-year turns make no sens at all. It reminds me Civilization with 25 years turn.
Realism will deeply suffer from it. I hope I'm wrong.


it doesn't suffer to be honest.

The game works on the logic that one turn in 4 has more harsh weather than normal (you can get harsh weather in any turn in mountains etc), so there is a rough seasonality.

Regions are bigger than say AJE, so you are very unlikely to see two stacks just sail past each other.

In turn there is a shift of mind-set. Took me a while but fundamentally this is not an operational game, its strategic. Its Empire building (and as per the dev diaries, once you have your Empire holding the damn thing is a real challenge), so the loss of some finer detail is not an issue.

So you won't sit there, as you might in AJE (or WiA) and plot and replot a movement path to possibly slip past an enemy column, so you are working at a broader level. As an eg, for the most part Central and Southern Italy is 2 regions wide (3 in a few spots). So if you move into enemy territory you are most likely going to encounter their army, the scope for slipping past them is there but pretty much unlikely.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you end up reading the Empires map very differently to AJE. Not least you maybe thinking about establishing control over say, the Po valley, as your next major campaign (which will probably last 4-6 years to carry out). You're not thinking of how to bring the Pontics to battle with Sulla in terrain that hurts them and works in your favour.

And its worth remembering, that battles are very detailed, both within Empires and if you use the FoG2 link.

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ajarnlance
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:32 am

Quote "You're not thinking of how to bring the Pontics to battle with Sulla in terrain that hurts them and works in your favour."

But Pocus confirmed that terrain does matter. The battles in FOG2 will reflect the terrain on the strategic map, as will the battles in the game itself. So army composition should also be important. I am also assuming that an army can move more than one province in a year. I like the concept that if you move more than one province you are increasing the risk of unforeseen events e.g. encountering another army, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. i.e. the risk increases the more bold you are with your moves. That is what I have always loved about WEGO.

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loki100
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:26 am

apols - my comment was in the context of AJE, where you would look for a constrained battle site using the smaller scale, so gaining this would take some care in move plotting etc.

Yes, in Empires terrain also matters but its more aggregated. A province is say a forest, that affects frontage, triggers malus and bonus for unit types and of course affects the terrain if you shift to FoG2.

You can indeed move more than one region in a turn, and you can indeed find yourself in a battle you never planned for due to the turn resolution process.

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ajarnlance
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:18 pm

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I think it is the ability of the WEGO system to model meeting engagements and other unexpected events that makes it the most realistic game mechanic for me. After all, it's not like they had GPS back then :) I am a big fan of FOG so I'm really excited about the prospect of playing out tactical battles in their engine. With Empires adding the strategic context this sounds like a wargamer's dream come true.

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H Gilmer3
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Re: Duration of one turn ?

Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:30 pm

It doesn't really bother me as much as others. I doubt it would be like this, but I could see two armies entering a province and according to the "delay" it could be at any time during the year they actually meet on the field. I would kind of wish it be like that. That way, you wouldn't have to worry about 1 in 4 turns being harsh weather. It would be random, but it would be equally distributed just on a different variant system. Maybe even affected by leader traits that I think they said are going to be implemented?

Example. Roman army moves into province and Carthaginian army moves into province. Day counter starts. Is the battle on January 21st? Or March 4th? or in August? or on December 25th? That would be kind of cool. Similar to how many of the older Ageod games work. In a game with 2 week turns, both armies are in the province but because of delay of battle, the battle may started on the 10th day of the turn.

I doubt it is like that, but that is how I wish it would be. I don't hate the other way, just like my way (and the older Ageod way) better.

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