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marek1978
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How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:56 pm

Hey guys, wanted to share my experience from ongoing PBEM game.
I am playing Swedish Empire.
I do not have that much experience with that game.

To make the long story short

At the beggining of the game both danish and swedish fleets are locked.

To have any chance of winning the great norther war Sweden has to force denmark in to peace at the very start - there is an option that trigers it - one has to land Charles XII with his army in Denmark.
If England is still not at war wiith France Travendal Peace option can be activated then. And tha means Denmak-Norway stand down.

Thus Sweden has full naval control of baltic. Can tranfer Armies. And Can fous on fighting Russia and Saxony.


In real life that happened beacuse England and Holand send huge fleet that - together with swedish secured the straits and Charles managed to land near Copnehagen.

In game terms huge, English - Dutch fleet pops up be event in the straits.

Yet i was bit to greedy and thought then alied fleet is enough to control straits for one turn so i could transfer some units to kurlan to hit saxon hard. I thiught - one turn wont make a difference in the west part of Baltic. Yet it will make a huge change in the east.

I was so wrong...

Danish flett destroyed duch-english one. And becuase of that is controling Sund.
Landing any troops in Zeland is not going to be extremely hard now.
Whats more, there is a huge chance that it wont be possible to elimanee Denmark-Norway from the war.That means Danish fleet being enormous factor. Even if it wont freeze all swedish communication it can makeit extremely hard. And can make sieging cities like Narwa or Riga much easier.


and even thought it spells disaster for Sweden i really like it as it makes game really funny and interesting.
If guys going to expand the game i would say that altrnative scenrio without English intervention would be really interesting. Or to balance a game creating a scenrio where Poland - Lithuanian parliament supress August and he is not able to send any more troops for that war then he did and the beging - making Poland - Lituania neutral and Swden fighting just two stron adversories - Denmark and Russia....


anyway great fun.

as for the game advice - dont you guys wait one extra turn. Block these bloody Danes ASAP!!!

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Durk
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:07 am

I am totally onboard with your pain. I was very lucky to go v=for Denmark first without qualms. It worked. So I second your advice to players. Knock out Denmark. All might not be well, but all will be better.

phoenix
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:07 am

Novice question: Aren't all the Swedish naval assets frozen for the first three turns? How do you knock out Denmark with all your Navy frozen? For that matter, aren't the Swedish forces across the sound (including Charles XII) all frozen also?

I would appreciate a kind of rough blow by blow explanation of how to knock out Denmark. If anyone has time...

Thanks.

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Nikel
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:09 am

The danish fleet is locked 4 turns, the Swedish only 2.

So the designers gave some advantage here for the Swedish side.

The main Swedish army is also locked for 4 turns, perhaps to compensate or to give time to the fleet.

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PhilThib
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:49 am

Yes, this leaves time to Sweden to assemble her fleet next to Charles' army and carry it to Sjaelland :indien:

HHFD50
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:41 am

In two turn after Charles lands you can knock Denmark out of the war, which negates the Danish fleet. As Sweden it’s all about speed, and the game has been set up this way to assist in that process as it happened historically. As for the Danish fleet defeating the Anglo-Dutch AND the Swedish fleet? That’s a bit surprising. No way that should happen!

phoenix
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:48 am

Really? 2 turns. Charles army has a weight of around 400 and the Karlskrona fleet - including the boats in Riga, and Gothenburg - can carry around 200. So to get his entire army over is a matter of 2 turns after he has become activated. Building transports from turn 1 doesn't really help as they will take another 2 turns to be available.

But I'm still in the middle of trying all this.

Question: If I load Charles aboard and plot a path to some bit of Zealand (which is the recommended landing province, by the way?) with distant unloading selected (and that province selected) can I then immediately plot a return path for the boats and they will go to that province, drop off Charles and return to port, all in one turn?

Thanks.

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:53 am

You do not need to land all of Charles'army....select the best troops with about 8 regiments +/-, that will make the 100 elements required. The Danes are no match in battle even for that small force...you land them south of Kopenhagen if you wish to avoid battle... on the following turn(s) Charles moves to besiege the city (fortunately blockaded by the anglo Dutch fleet) and the Swedish fleet goes back to Malmoe for ferrying the rest of the Swedes (not sure you even need them)

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marek1978
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:45 am

HHFD50 wrote:In two turn after Charles lands you can knock Denmark out of the war, which negates the Danish fleet. As Sweden it’s all about speed, and the game has been set up this way to assist in that process as it happened historically. As for the Danish fleet defeating the Anglo-Dutch AND the Swedish fleet? That’s a bit surprising. No way that should happen!



the thing is i DID NOT move swedish fleet there
i was busy with moving them to riga and i thought english fleet is enogh for the danes

it is not....

my fault

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:25 am

PhilThib wrote:You do not need to land all of Charles'army....select the best troops with about 8 regiments +/-, that will make the 100 elements required. The Danes are no match in battle even for that small force...you land them south of Kopenhagen if you wish to avoid battle... on the following turn(s) Charles moves to besiege the city (fortunately blockaded by the anglo Dutch fleet) and the Swedish fleet goes back to Malmoe for ferrying the rest of the Swedes (not sure you even need them)


8 regiments is not enough.

You need at least 100 elements in the Denmark area (plus Charles) to enforce the Peace of Travendal which translates to a minimum of 13 infantry or cavalry regiments. Charles' army has less than 100 elements from the start so you need to recruit at least one more infantry regiment plus the South Scania Army. It will take at least 2 and possibly 3-4 turns to ferry enough troops across Oeresund even if you bring in extra naval transports from Riga and Gothenburg.

BR
Anders

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PhilThib
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:18 pm

Not exactly...Charles is not even required... :indien:

As for the extra troops, when you assemble all those in Western Sweden (from Gothenburg to Malmoe), there is no need to build new ones to meet the requirement

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:25 pm

Have you actually done it PhilThib? I'm assuming you have. Can you confirm it will take at least 2 runs to get 100 units across?

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marek1978
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:16 pm

phoenix wrote:Have you actually done it PhilThib? I'm assuming you have. Can you confirm it will take at least 2 runs to get 100 units across?



one dont need 100 units, one needs 100 elements

it is perfelcty duable

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:55 pm

phoenix wrote:Have you actually done it PhilThib? I'm assuming you have. Can you confirm it will take at least 2 runs to get 100 units across?


Yes, 3 or 4 times while beta testing...you need to concentrate both all the Swedish western armies and the Swedish fleets in Malmoe...then you mostly load infantry and just a few guns, plus Charles and Sutart, and you land south of Copenhague...the fleet returns to Malmoe next turn, and the following you re-land everything left you can possibly transport to Copenhague (where Charles moved, northward, in the meanwhile)...in 3-4 turns it's done...with luck in 5 to 6 turns max Denmark surrenders...

And the good news is that after the peace, every Swedes in Sjaelland is teleported back to Malmoe...where, in the meanwhile you can build a few extra transport ships and also concentrate your navy...

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:29 pm

Thanks. I've now managed it quite easily, getting the card unlocked and played during the July 1700 turn. Magic. Just in time since the Russkies are going for Narva already.....

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marek1978
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:38 pm

phoenix wrote:Thanks. I've now managed it quite easily, getting the card unlocked and played during the July 1700 turn. Magic. Just in time since the Russkies are going for Narva already.....


I am not a fan of Peter the Great and Russian Empire heritage but “Russkies “is a bit offensive word

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:55 pm

Is it? Interesting. Where in the world is it offensive? And for what reasons?

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Nikel
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:18 pm

According to the Oxford English Dictionary it may be slang but also colloquial


Code: Select all

ˈRusski, a. and n. slang or colloq.

Also Roosky, Ruski, Rusky, Russky.

[ad. Russ. Russkiy.]

= Russian a. and n. Hence ˈRusski-land, Russia.




But it is more interesting the story that Russia and the Russians name come from the Vikings, from a region in modern Sweden, whose name means "the men who row"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people

phoenix
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:31 pm

Words and usages are complicated and VERY context sensitive. I'm prepared to learn that 'Russky' is offensive to Russians 'in general', or even some Russians, but it's not offensive to the Russians I personally know, and a quick look on-line doesn't yield any clear consensus, as far as I can see. It might be possible to use it disparagingly, of course - instead of using it much as someone might say 'the Brits', for British (which was how I used it above). But it doesn't seem to be in the same category as many other pejorative words I can think of, and wouldn't use, to describe peoples from various parts of the world. In the UK (which is not, admittedly, a bastion of political correctness or any kind of example to anyone...), where I grew up, you could use Russky as I've indicated above, as a non-pejorative nickname for Russian, exactly as you would use 'Brit'. But usage changes, and I could be out of date.

Like I said, I'm happy to learn and not use it at all, clearly, if it offends any Russians. Any Russians want to chip in?

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:33 pm

phoenix wrote:Is it? Interesting. Where in the world is it offensive? And for what reasons?


Here are some sources.

I don’t like when someone calls me Polack, so I would not use Russkie. But perhaps I overreacted.
Anyway, nice day.


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/russkie




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _ethnicity

Russki, Russkie
Sometimes disparaging when used by foreigners for "Russian",[113] although in the Russian language, it is a neutral term which simply means an ethnic Russian as opposed to a citizen of the Russian Federation.

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:35 pm

Meanwhile, on topic, players might note that it appears that a consequence of the Swedish troops being tele-transported back to Karlskrona is that they are then fixed for 2 turns. So it pays to only take over the minimal necessary to achieve the Travendal Peace, which, appears to be that part of Charles XII's stack that can fit on the fleet. So leave out the supplies, the sappers, and a couple of low weight regiments and you've still got enough to trigger the card, it seems.

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:37 pm

No. Good to call me out, Marek1978. Thanks. I would hope that whenever people use offensive stereotypes they are called out if people are offended. The points have all been noted! :)

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marek1978
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:41 pm

phoenix wrote:Words and usages are complicated and VERY context sensitive. I'm prepared to learn that 'Russky' is offensive to Russians 'in general', or even some Russians, but it's not offensive to the Russians I personally know, and a quick look on-line doesn't yield any clear consensus, as far as I can see. It might be possible to use it disparagingly, of course - instead of using it much as someone might say 'the Brits', for British (which was how I used it above). But it doesn't seem to be in the same category as many other pejorative words I can think of, and wouldn't use, to describe peoples from various parts of the world. In the UK (which is not, admittedly, a bastion of political correctness or any kind of example to anyone...), where I grew up, you could use Russky as I've indicated above, as a non-pejorative nickname for Russian, exactly as you would use 'Brit'. But usage changes, and I could be out of date.

Like I said, I'm happy to learn and not use it at all, clearly, if it offends any Russians. Any Russians want to chip in?



Well I am not native English, and I don’t live in English speaking country now so I don’t fell I should argue, I am just part of multilingual family, thanks to my beautiful wife and I see how language goes strange ways.

My first reflection for russkie would be negative but I guess I overact as I live in a country where language is becoming extremely aggressive towards other nationalities and ethnicities.

But I must admit that in UK things look much better as Brits (British) combine high level of openness with the great sense of humour.

Anyway, sorry for being “political correct etc though control police)

Cheers

phoenix
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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:58 pm

Brits are at the moment very far from showing the world anything 'better', I feel. The whole Brexit thing, the growing xenophobia, - it's all awful and makes me ashamed. There are those who would disagree, of course (just over half the UK population, perhaps...) and this is probably not the best kind of thread to start..... :(

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:43 pm

HHFD50 wrote:In two turn after Charles lands you can knock Denmark out of the war, which negates the Danish fleet. As Sweden it’s all about speed, and the game has been set up this way to assist in that process as it happened historically. As for the Danish fleet defeating the Anglo-Dutch AND the Swedish fleet? That’s a bit surprising. No way that should happen!


According to the histories I have read, the Anglo Dutch insisted that the Swedish fleet join theirs in the strists, as a precondition for blockading them so the Swedish army could land on Zealand. The Danish fleet was large and experienced, and commanded by a brilliant admiral, Mils Juel, who had won many victories against the Swedish navy in the previous war. King Karl actually took a huge risk in sailing his fleet through a dangerous channel so they could unite with the Anglo Dutch fleet.

So , it appears that the Anglo Dutch allies considered the presence of the Swedish fleet necessary, in order to make victory so likely that the Danes would not seek battle. They considered a victory by the Danes over the Anglo Dutch ships a;one to be a credible threat. I like it that the game shows what could have happened if the Swedish fleet was not there. Certainly it could have turned out differently, but the game reflects tha actual concerns of the Anglo Dutch allies.

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Re: How to lose GNW in 3 turns ( as Sweden)

Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:12 pm

Just a small correction. Niels Juel was a brilliant general admiral of the Danish navy, but was dead in 1700. From May 1700 general lieutenant admiral Ulrik Christian Gyldenløve was the commander of the Danish fleet (22 years old). So the game is correct to have him as the commanding admiral at the bombardment and landing. :papy:

Gyldenløve was a brilliant admiral too :)

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